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Tac5Man
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#241 · Posted: 19 Aug 2010 18:59
mtran2000: Interesting ad in local shopper near me that is under employment section. Reads something like this 'Full or part time employment working out of home and a few other vague details I can't recall plus phone number' I called out of curiousity and it is Melaleuca opportunity. I find this ad very misleading as it not really a job ad. I bet Melaleuca would not approve of this if they were contacted. Melaleuca is a reputable company and money can be made but it takes a lot of work, time and some investment. Mark
I don't think Melaleuca would approve of this ad either. Melaleuca is build on integrity and honesty. Every job worth having that doesn't take advantage of other people is lots of work and time. And every work from home opportunity requires an investment (although with Melaleuca it is only $29 with a 120 day money back guarantee if you don't like it)
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TJamMoneyMan
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#242 · Posted: 19 Aug 2010 23:02 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
Tac5Man: Melaleuca is a CDM-MLM.
This is what gets me going!
CDM, for the umpteenth time, is a REGISTERED TRADEMARK.
CDM, unlinke MLM, is not a valid business structure.
ONLY Melaleuca can call itself CDM, because it is their own name!
Like 7up, Pepsi, or Coke.
Tac5Man: They are a different kind of MLM. No one gets hurt in Melaleuca... and as far as being over run: They have 500,000 customers world wide. (they are in several countries now) 61% of 500,000 = 305,000 customers never enroll even 1 member. 27% of 500,000 = 135,000 customers enroll between 1 to 7 people. That means that only 60,000 customers located in several different countries actually do enroll 8 or more. and there are 307,006,550 people in America alone. Still a lot of people out there.
Those are some very misleading numbers!
1) There may be 307 mil + people in the USA, but how many are ADULTS - as in people actually able to enter into a binding contract?
How many are in JAIL, mentally or physically incapacitated, or otherwise able or unable to actually participate in an MLM?
How many are so filthy rich, they won't give even one moment's consideration to WORKING, let alone doing an MLM?
The list goes on...
In short, how many people in the USA do you actually have a chance at pitching your MLM offer to?
THAT is your potential customer/representative source.
Your MARKET.
2) There's something wrong with the figures you are quoting:
IF, there are 135,000 people, enrolling 1-7 people, then at an average of 3.5 "customers enrolled", would be 472,500 Melaleuca people right there.
Then, an ADDITIONAL 60,000 people 'enrolling' 8 or MORE people is MORE THAN 480,000 people.
That totals MORE THAN 952,000 people so far.
You also have that 305,000 who are 'only customers'.
Total so far?
As you can see, that would be 1,257,000 members.
More than DOUBLE your original figure of 500,000!!
Do you have an explanation for this?
3) In any event you mention a total of 195,000 people trying to make a business of Mel.
Multiply that by 8, 3.5, or even smaller numbers and, as you multiply the enrollees, who will need THEIR numbers of 'enrollees', and you are quickly in the Multi-MILLIONS of people.
a)There may be 6 billion people or so worldwide, but you should easily understand that you don't have 6 billion people to sell to! There again, your MARKET is limited.
b) As reps need to recruit customer/reps, who will also need to recruit customer/reps, the numbers get HUGE fast. Market saturation is an inevitable reality - even if each person seeking to do so, gets the customer/reps they need. THOSE customer/reps will need a new batch of MILLIONS of people to support them - who will also need MILLIONS AND MILLIONS more to support THEM.
You DO run out of customers, and that's even if, ESPECIALLY if, everyone is successful!!
Successful or not, someone HAS to get 'hurt'!
Market saturation refers to the number of reps, versus the customer base.
When there are too many reps, and simply not enough customers for all these reps to have a successful business, your market is SATURATED.
In layperson's terms - "who are you gonna sell to?"
(And, of course, who are THEY gonna sell to?)
Still, I am open minded to whatever explanations you have to offer.
I'd be interested to see if you can show any proof that these things are not true.
That Market Saturation is not an inevitable reality of an MLM/pyramid structure.
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TJamMoneyMan
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#243 · Posted: 19 Aug 2010 23:16 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
mtran2000: I called out of curiousity and it is Melaleuca opportunity. I find this ad very misleading as it not really a job ad. I bet Melaleuca would not approve of this if they were contacted.
Honestly, do you really think Melaleuca doesn't know this kind of thing is going on?
Do you think they need to be 'contacted'?
I am certain Melaleuca could do something about this if they wanted to!
However, this kind of misleading advertising is just the direct result of a saturated market - desperate reps trying against all odds to make a successful home biz of the Melaleuca 'opportunity'.
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Tac5Man
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#244 · Posted: 20 Aug 2010 09:40
I will try and answer all your questions as best I can.
TJamMoneyMan: Those are some very misleading numbers! 1) There may be 307 mil + people in the USA, but how many are ADULTS - as in people actually able to enter into a binding contract? How many are in JAIL, mentally or physically incapacitated, or otherwise able or unable to actually participate in an MLM? How many are so filthy rich, they won't give even one moment's consideration to WORKING, let alone doing an MLM? The list goes on... In short, how many people in the USA do you actually have a chance at pitching your MLM offer to? THAT is your potential customer/representative source. Your MARKET.
I forgot to take into account adults and children. I'm not quite sure what the number is of adults. Rich people and mentally or physically incapacitated people can still benefit from the products and don't have to build the business if they choose not to.
I have personally gone out into the business world and asked people if they have heard of Melaleuca, 90% say no! Have you ever asked anyone if they have heard of Melaleuca?
I'm not pitching a MLM. I am pitching greater, safer, cheaper products that everyone can use.
TJamMoneyMan: 2) There's something wrong with the figures you are quoting: IF, there are 135,000 people, enrolling 1-7 people, then at an average of 3.5 "customers enrolled", would be 472,500 Melaleuca people right there. Then, an ADDITIONAL 60,000 people 'enrolling' 8 or MORE people is MORE THAN 480,000 people. That totals MORE THAN 952,000 people so far. You also have that 305,000 who are 'only customers'. Total so far? As you can see, that would be 1,257,000 members. More than DOUBLE your original figure of 500,000!! Do you have an explanation for this?
My numbers were off. But so were yours. The 305,000 are a part of the 952,000, not an additional. Don't forget, customers don't materialize from nowhere. They have to be enrolled by another person. So the number is actually more then 500,000 customers, but less then the 1.2million you came up with.
TJamMoneyMan: Successful or not, someone HAS to get 'hurt'!
No one is hurt, people are still getting the products they order and need for cheaper prices. My dad has been a customer for 15 years and only enrolled about 20 people (all of which used just the products and never enrolled 8 customers themselves) and he was making about $300 month. I have just started my Melaleuca business and I'm excited for the opportunity.
TJamMoneyMan: Still, I am open minded to whatever explanations you have to offer. I'd be interested to see if you can show any proof that these things are not true. That Market Saturation is not an inevitable reality of an MLM/pyramid structure.
The proof as they say, is in the pudding  Here is a suggestion for you. Go out to the local store and ask 10 people if they have ever heard of Melaleuca. I doubt 2 of them will say yes. And since Melaleuca has a 60 empty bottle money back guarantee with a 120 day money back guarantee for the business kit why don't we try an experiment. I have my own online hosting room for presentations. Why don't you let me give you a presentation and see if you still feel the same way. If you choose not to at least you will be a little more educated about Melaleuca, and if you choose to try it you have a money back guarantee. If you are so sure that the market is saturated then why don't you try it to be sure. like I said 120 money back guarantee, I promise you will be surprised about how few people actually know about Melaleuca.
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TJamMoneyMan
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#245 · Posted: 20 Aug 2010 15:36 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
TJamMoneyMan: IF, there are 135,000 people, enrolling 1-7 people, then at an average of 3.5 "customers enrolled", would be 472,500 Melaleuca people right there. Then, an ADDITIONAL 60,000 people 'enrolling' 8 or MORE people is MORE THAN 480,000 people. That totals MORE THAN 952,000 people so far.
Yes, your numbers are off, as I demonstrated.
But my only mistake was that there are actually 500,000 members in addition to the recruits. Not just 305,000!
So there are actually MORE THAN 1,452,000 members by YOUR accounting.
Very simply, there are 500,000 original members, plus 952,000 recruits:
135,000 members recruit 472,000 EXTRA people,
60,000 members recruit 480,000 EXTRA people.
Those figures ALONE add up to the 952,000 NEW recruits I mentioned.
In ADDITION to these NEW recruits, is your figure of 500,000 original members.
So, add 472K NEW 'enrollees', 480K NEW 'enrollees', and 500K original members and you are at MORE THAN 1,452,000 members!
About THREE TIMES your figure of 500,000 members!
So, do you even know how many Mel members there are?
Tac5Man: If you are so sure that the market is saturated then why don't you try it to be sure.
I am already sure!
Desperate Mel marketers that advertise Melaleuca as an 'employment opportunity' have already 'tried it'.
Soon they too will be sure, and HURT, by the tremendous waste of time and money expended, in trying to make a go of the Melaleuca 'opportunity'.
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Tac5Man
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#246 · Posted: 20 Aug 2010 16:51
You are so confidant and yet DEAD wrong. You keep adding people into the business and it's just not true. Even if it was true it's still a far cry from the amount of adults in the US alone. Melaleuca is not over saturated! there is NO MONEY EXPENDED! You only order what you use, no more. I currently have 0 enrollments in my Melaleuca business. (I have only told 3 people about it, and all three are interested in learning more) I'll PM you in a few months and let you know how I did. Should be a learning lesson for all of us.
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TJamMoneyMan
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#247 · Posted: 20 Aug 2010 17:54
Tac5Man: You keep adding people into the business and it's just not true.
It's all simple math, based on the data you provided.
If it's incorrect, just prove it!
Do NOT PM me about Melaleuca, that will be SPAM, and I WILL report it.
Anyone possessed of elementary school level or better math skills can see that my calculations are correct, regardless of whether or not Mel's market is saturated.
"NO MONEY EXPENDED"?
Yeah right, Melaleuca is not an MLM, and now it doesn't cost anything!
Answer my questions if you can.
Here in an open forum where anyone can see.
But do NOT spam me!
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Tac5Man
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#248 · Posted: 20 Aug 2010 19:49
It only costs what you use. You are not stocking up on inventory or material. I'm a little confused about the member count myself. But it doesn't matter to me. I have talked to dozens of people and not ONE has heard of Melaleuca yet. As for the PM I promised I will not send it. Instead I will keep you guys posted about how I am doing.
Cool thing about Melaleuca is that a lot of the members just use the products. If you don't like the products then you don't do the business. If you like the products your still not getting hurt no matter how bad you're doing because you are still saving money on everyday products and only ordering what you need.
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TJamMoneyMan
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#249 · Posted: 20 Aug 2010 23:07
Tac5Man: Instead I will keep you guys posted about how I am doing.
This I gotta see!
Everyone else posts for a while, then give up as the Melaleuca 'opportunity' fails them.
Tac5Man: I'm a little confused about the member count myself. But it doesn't matter to me.
Yes, your member count data is suspect, at best.
But it's that very member count that will determine the possibility of your success.
It takes the impossibly huge numbers of a geometric progression, to support the 'member count', in order for the BUSINESS of Melaleuca to work for ALL those who are trying to make money with Mel.
It matters to you!
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zippydmm
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#250 · Posted: 22 Aug 2010 19:29
TJ-
I agree, saturation is inevitable.
You do have your facts a bit off with regards to "building" the business.
First, when you sign up ($29 enrollment fee), you are asked to become a "preferred customer". If you do this, you get a "discount" rate on the products you buy. In order to receive the discount and remain a "preferred" customer, you must buy 35points/$75 (approx) worth of products.
You can drop below the 35 point threshold, but you would lose the "discount" price.
So, basically, you signed up to become a consumer/customer. If you don't like the product, there is a 100% guarantee return policy. And if you don't like the company you drop out.
So, the risk is fairly minimal.
To become a "business builder", the enrollment process is the same. Except, you must be a "preferred customer" and you willingly put your time and effort, (blood,sweat and tears) into trying to sign on preferred customers who buy directly from the company, not you. (Still no additional financial commitment (i.e., stocking inventories, etc.), other than the enrollment fee/purchasing commitment)
So basically, if you like the products, don't mind paying $75 per month, you might as well try to build a business as it won't cost you any additional funds, and you could possibly make some $.
Based on the compensation plan, if you "refer" 8-10, you probably could pay for you products with the residual check.
If you don't like the products, or "financial" commitment to buy 35 points per month, it's not for you. Still, all you have lost is a $29 enrollment fee, and that's it, because you can return your products to get your money back.....minus shipping I suppose.
I really don't believe this is a scam, as long as the Mel reps don't misrepresent how the process and potential opportunities work.
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TJamMoneyMan
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#251 · Posted: 23 Aug 2010 17:54 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
zippydmm: You do have your facts a bit off with regards to "building" the business.
No doubt, since I got disenchanted and disgusted with Melaleuca, and similiar MLM deals, due to the 'bait and switch' tactics of the person who introduced me to Mel and other MLMs.
The other reason my facts may be "a bit off" is because no one has presented a factual overview of Melaleuca, to me anyway, as you have done here.
You are to be commended for being the first person I have run into who has explained things, in detail, without trying to trick me into watching yet another 1 hour presentation.
You have given a factual overview of Melaleuca, without hype, corporate lines, misrepresentation, and misinformation.
If MLM reps did this, there would be far less acrimony towards these types of opportunities.
Melaleuca, as any pyramid/MLM, still has the inherent flaw of market saturation.
And you even recognize this terrifying (to MLM'ers) reality, which creates desperate marketers who destroy the reputations of MLM companies - even those MLM's which are 'legitimate'.
I appreciate your factual presentation.
good luck 2u!
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motivatedmom
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#252 · Posted: 23 Aug 2010 21:23
Man you guys are numbers people hey? haha
Consumer Direct Marketing IS a valud business structure. I have made thousands of dollars with Melaleuca - almost $30,000 to be exact over the past 2 years. Just working part-time from my home with my 2 young kids right by my side. The extra money I make every month has enabled my family to have peace of mind knowing we have enough money to pay the bills every month.
I am no network marketing guru. I have never had a business before Melaleuca. I just love the company, I love the products, I show people the slideshow and set up their membership and teach others how to do the same. It's a simple business where there is NO inventory, NO RISK.
So by "not getting hurt" stems from the fact that no one has to order a bunch of inventory to sell and eventually get stuck with.
My support team has also has a lot of success.
my enroller makes over $5000 a month.
Her enroller makes over $15,000 a month.
His enroller makes over $1.2 million a year.
If you want to succeed with Melaleuca you can. you just have to put in TIME and EFFORT. Have a WHY and motivation and be committed to helping others which in turn will help you.
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TJamMoneyMan
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#253 · Posted: 24 Aug 2010 13:07 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
motivatedmom: Consumer Direct Marketing IS a valud business structure
Consumer Direct Marketing - CDM, is a trademark, NOT "a valid business structure".
The serial number for this PATENTED TRADEMARK is 76532256.
It is registered with the US Patent Trademark Office - USPTO.
You can see this for yourself by following this USPTO Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS) link:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/
From there, you can do a search for Melaleuca's CDM trademark # 76352256:
Choose "Free Form Search (Advanced Search)", from the "Select Search Form" window.
Then click on the 'submit query' button.
The following information will appear about Melaleuca, and their TRADEMARK - Consumer Direct Marketing:
Word Mark CONSUMER DIRECT MARKETING
Goods and Services IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: association services namely, promoting independent sales representatives in the field of dietary and nutritional food supplements, household cleaners, soaps, laundry products, personal care products and cosmetics through the distribution of printed, audio and video promotional materials and by rendering promotional sales advice. FIRST USE: 19930601. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19930601
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 76532256
Filing Date June 2, 2003
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition May 31, 2005
Registration Number 2986818
Registration Date August 23, 2005
Owner (REGISTRANT) Melaleuca, Inc. CORPORATION IDAHO 3910 S. Yellowstone Highway Idaho Falls IDAHO 83402
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
motivatedmom: My support team has also has a lot of success. my enroller makes over $5000 a month. Her enroller makes over $15,000 a month. His enroller makes over $1.2 million a year.
Looks like you are pretty concerned with the numbers yourself!
But anyone can see from your own numbers that the folx on top make all the money, as is typical in the MLM structure that is Melaleuca.
Of course, I wouldn't believe these income earnings myself, as well as your own earnings claim, unless you can provide proof - which I seriously doubt.
On the other hand, if you can prove your earnings, and the earnings of your enrollers, please do.
Still, I don't know how relevant that information would be to the folx at the bottom of the Melaleuca MLM pyramid, since THEY don't have a prayer of earning that kind of money.
But at least you would be posting valid information that can be checked and verified.
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Tac5Man
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#254 · Posted: 24 Aug 2010 14:28
Yeah! Got my first enrollee. someone I don't even know e-mailed me and said she got my name off a forum and she wanted to sign up. Been doing this for less then one month. Talked to 5 people and have 1 enrollee.
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melakelly
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#255 · Posted: 24 Aug 2010 17:34
WOW! That is all I have to say after an hour of reading all 13 pages of this thread! WOW! Not just from people who support Melaleuca, but from the people so hell bent on degrading it. If you don't like Melaleuca....fine.....that's all there is to it. It wasn't for you, it's not for everybody...and move on! Some of these people posting could make a life out of degrading it so much. GET a life! GEEZ! If you don't like it, find something you do like, something you can succeed at. Just because one person has bad dealings, or should I say...doesn't read the fine print before joining, doesn't mean all people will be that way. I have been just a customer for YEARS! 35 points??? Even for a family of 3, I blow that right out of the water. The whole concept is to switch stores. Why join, order SOME products, don't completely switch stores, and expect to make more than a few dollars a month?? I would never go and tell people about Melaleuca, if I myself, haven't seen the need to get safer products in my home and only order the laundry. Doesn't make sense. If your a Melaleuca customer, marketing executive...then GREAT! If not, then.....GREAT! Means you have something else that drives that passion in you. I enrolled my very best friend 4 years and 8 months ago. Not because I was building the business, but because I knew the products would impact her life. And they have. They won't impact everybody the same way. But Melaleuca is a solid company, and I am proud to be part of that. MLM, Consumer Direct Marketing, internet marketing, direct selling....whatever you want to call WHATEVER......it doesn't matter. If you look at parts of MLM, then even just a regular business could be called MLM. When I was in the workplace, I was in a position, I had a direct boss above me that made more than me, she had a direct boss above her that made more than her.....and so on. That's life! But I do know with Melaleuca, you don't buy the products to distribute them. THAT is the difference, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. I have never bought products to sell to my friends or family or whoever. I buy what I use...each and every month, and I CAN go above and beyond 35 points because I HAVE completely switched stores. That's all there is to it! So be blessed in whatever drives your passion, no matter what business it is, and quit dogging companies, just because you MIGHT have a bad experience....MOVE ON!
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melakelly
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#256 · Posted: 24 Aug 2010 17:52
Tac5Man
YAH! Good for you!
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legitstuffonly
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#257 · Posted: 24 Aug 2010 19:18
Melaleuca has a great product line, no doubt about it.
What I did not like about being a customer is that I had to purchase a certain amount EVERY month. I just did not need that much product. When asked if I could purchase on an "every other month" basis, I was told they didn't have that as an option.
Needless to say, I discontinued my orders.
That was some years ago. Things may be different now.
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Tac5Man
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#258 · Posted: 24 Aug 2010 20:48
legitstuffonly - Nothing is different, you still have to order 35 Product Points every month. But they have added a bunch of new products in the last couple of years.
TJamMoneyMan - what zippydmm said is what I was trying to say, but he/she just said it a little better. I was never trying to "trick" you into watching an hour long presentation. I am a honest person trying to build a honest business. And I feel like I'm doing pretty well at the moment. My goal is to rescue as many people as I can from scams/bad jobs. And help them recover and reach their financial goals.
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TJamMoneyMan
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#259 · Posted: 25 Aug 2010 00:56 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
Tac5Man: TJamMoneyMan - what zippydmm said is what I was trying to say, but he/she just said it a little better.
Sorry my man.
No offense, but what YOU said and what zippydmm said have nothing in common.
She presented facts.
Your information was questionable at best.
I never said YOU were trying to trick me, but many MLM'ers try to trick folx into hearing that 1 hour presentation.
This they do by tactics similar to 'bait and switch', like advertising Melaleuca as an 'employment opportunity'.
Your numbers about Melaleuca's membership and recruiting were off, and you never addressed that.
It seems like you just made those figures up, or at least did nothing to try and verify your information.
You didn't address the issue of the reality of the possibility of market saturation, other than to just deny it.
You also stated there was "NO MONEY EXPENDED", whereas zippydmm presented the fact that it COSTS $29 to get started, which you do NOT get back.
Yes, small potatoes, but the truth, for a change.
I don't think you are dishonest.
But you aren't presenting much in the way of facts, or an answer to sincere questions.
I know you are just getting started with Melaleuca, but I hope, for your sake, you will be doing a better job of presenting the facts of Melaleuca's business opportunity in the future.
Either way,
good luck 2u!
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Tac5Man
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#260 · Posted: 25 Aug 2010 09:29
No offense taken (I'm very hard to offend  )
The $29 Membership Kit is refundable for 120 days. So yes you can get it back. This has been verified.
As for the membership count: I relies that I am wrong and not quite sure what happened. Will have to recalculate that someday. But for me I find that I have a hard time presenting stuff over forums and e-mails. Better in person (most people are I guess).
Market saturation doesn't exist in my area, 95% of people I talk to haven't heard of it. And they people who have really don't know what it's all about.
Have you ever seen a MLM company where some reps don't use 'bait and switch'? If you avoid companies where some reps use 'bait and switch' what is left?
But as as zipppy said, if you like the products you might as well try and build a business, refer 8-10 people and your products are paid for. So you will be getting free household products instead of buying them at wal-mart.
The products themselves is what makes Melaleuca so unique, they are unlike anything out there.
Take for instance that Access Bar:
The Access Bar is basically a power bar, except it is a lot better then most power bars. Most power bars give you energy by giving you calories, sugar, or caffeine (or all three) and cost about $2+ per bar. The Access Bar has 6 patents on it, and costs about $1.33. What the Access Bar does is neutralize adenosine. Adenosine is a chemical that prevents you from tapping into your fat stores for energy. Instead your body taps into your muscles for energy thus making you sore after a workout and giving you less energy. With adenosine out of the way your body can tap into your fat stores, giving you a lot more energy, helping you loss excess weight, keeps you from eating at your muscles, and you don't feel sore after a workout! And that is just a short summary on one of their 300+ products. With products like the Access Bar you can see why I am excited about Melaleuca, because I'm not just selling basic shampoo or candles.
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