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RayvinAndRob
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#41 · Posted: 12 Jul 2007 14:03
However, that being said, I have to emphasize if I were to sign up with Roadmap To Riches, I'd be violating one of my own rules.
Rule #2: Never join a new company no matter how tempting it might be. Give it two or three years to prove itself.
I don't suggest someone who can't afford to risk about $1500 on a get rich quick opportunity like this one -- which just may work (for a while) -- do so.
And I might feel bad for all the poor suckers at the bottom of this pyramid who won't make their money back once the market for this deal is saturated.
On closer consideration my advice is to avoid this one! But if you're not concerned with ethics or about the monetary risk, then this deal's for you! Just make sure you get in quick, milk it 'till the cash cow dies, then get out quick and invest your profits into something solid like real estate or something.
Regards,
Rob Nyte
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Source of Influence-- All our philosophy is dry as dust if it is not immediately translated into some act of living service.(Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi)
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TopMentor
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#42 · Posted: 13 Jul 2007 11:12
Quoting: TheGuild $1349 is a very low start up cost when you look at things in greater perspective. If I needed the extra cash I just might venture the risk myself. It looks like a pretty good opportunity for someone just looking to make money on the internet and isn't really bothered by the fact you can't retail the product. The driving force behind this business is definitely recruit, recruit, recruit -- which really is what most network marketers do best anyway. It's our specialty!
Rob, you go from making the above statement and then state the following below:
Quoting: TheGuild But if you're not concerned with ethics or about the monetary risk, then this deal's for you! Just make sure you get in quick, milk it 'till the cash cow dies, then get out quick and invest your profits into something solid like real estate or something.
I'm not sure how you can say that there is ethics involved here because we have some great products that inspire people and pays all of 100% commission back for each product sold. Frankly, I feel insulted after making a statement like this.
Brian
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RayvinAndRob
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#43 · Posted: 13 Jul 2007 13:16
Hi Brian,
Please don't take it personally. I have no doubt you're a good person with good intentions. I thought I made that clear in my posts above.
I haven't changed my mind about you at all. I do not question your ethics. Rather, I question the ethics behind a company that uses deception in order to recruit new distributors.
I separate you from my analytical evaluation of your company, Roadmap To Riches. I do these evaluations all the time and do not get emotionally involved. I'm sure you understand the value of that. I'm sorry if what I had to say hurt you.
While it appears I may have contradicted myself, on closer examination of what I wrote, you will see that I am merely reasoning out loud. I allowed my thoughts to flow until I reached a final conclusion. That way all may see what the process of logically evaluating a business opportunity looks like.
To clarify my conclusion that R2R uses deception to attract distributors let me take you directly to your company's lead capture page for a moment.
It lists some pretty persuasive reasons why people should fill out the form for more information. One of those reasons is:
"Unique and Niche products in a Hot $8.9 BILLION Dollar a year Industry"
Wow! That's a HUGE market to tap into!
The industry it refers to is the Self Development Industry.
So far so good.
R2R targets people looking for information on weight loss, depression, mental health, insomnia, hypnosis, how to stop smoking, confidence, fear, self-help, anxiety, anger management, marriage, happiness, success, motivation, self-esteem and positive thinking.
According to the company's statistical sources, there were over 400,000 searches done using the keywords 'weight loss' in March of 2007. Weight loss sits at the top of the list in the Self Development Industry. Sitting at the bottom of the list at less that 9,000 searches in the same time period, according to the same sources, is 'positive thinking.' All the other keyword searches sit somewhere in between.
What does this show?
1) There are far fewer people searching for information on positive thinking than on weight loss.
2) There are far more people looking for information on how to lose weight than on how to think positive.
I could raise the question here, "How would joining your business opportunity help people to lose weight?"
Furthermore, "How would reading books about positive thinking and building home based businesses help them to lose weight?"
And one more thing: The implication is that fat people need to think more positively in order to lose weight!
Now who's insulting who?!
All the positive thinking in the world won't necessarily aid someone who's struggling with obesity due to no fault of their own. I know many overweight people who have the best of attitudes and eat healthier than most people do and their bodies still won't shed the weight.
Can you see why I have a problem with R2R? It targets the vulnerable in society. It promises them a solution to all their problems by offering them a business opportunity in which they will get a bunch of products they could have got for much, much cheaper - some of them even for free.
Moreover, I have to ask why is it I am having to spend time showing a few R2R distributors who have asked me for help on how to generate traffic to their R2R replicated websites?!
That's right! I'm not with R2R and yet I'm helping some of its distributors figure out how to get their stuff out there so they can start making some money. They have no support from their upline or the system they bought from R2R for $300(?!) is of such poor quality that they have no choice but to look elsewhere for help.
Now, granted my idea of good ethics may be different than someone else's. That's the nature of ethics; they are very situational and not absolute. That's why I don't judge anyone. I merely evaluate business opportunities and draw my own conclusions.
Regards,
Rob Nyte
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Source of Influence-- All our philosophy is dry as dust if it is not immediately translated into some act of living service.(Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi)
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TopMentor
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#44 · Posted: 13 Jul 2007 13:50
Oh Rob,
I really have to disagree with you on this one.
It's all in the eye of the beholder... if you believe you are providing a good product/service to someone. I could say your MLM companies are scams targeting innocent people that are at the bottom of the pyramid, but won't do that because you believe you are providing a good product/service just as I do with my opportunities.
Best,
Brian
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RayvinAndRob
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#45 · Posted: 13 Jul 2007 14:27
Brian,
Yes and people have been led to disaster through holding unreasonably to harmful beliefs.
Nevertheless, I understand why you say what you say about MLMs. I agree with you there are some really bad MLM companies out there which milk the masses of innocent people who's greed gets the best of them and yada, yada, yada.
We've heard it all before and all I can say is I hope those companies and their leaders are weeded out and appropriately held accountable for their unethical practices.
The fact there is so much manipulative crap out there on the internet is the reason I train people how to identify that crap as they search for a good MLM company to work with.
There are 5 essential things a good MLM company absolutely MUST have in order to meet my very high standards. If a company does not have those "pillars" in place I simply reject it and warn others of the danger.
I feel it is everybody's moral obligation to warn others of any dangers ahead in this industry. Those of us with more experience should help those of us with less. Period.
Besides, I am not here to convert you or anyone to my point of view nor am I interested in converting to someone else's point of view.
I am here only to be truly helpful by providing valuable and useful information FOR FREE, no strings attached, on how to find a good network marketing company to work with and how to avoid a bad one. No $999 business opportunity attached, either.
Could I send people a bunch of awesome cheap or free products, too, and tell them they can only get them if they join my 2 up company for $999 plus $300 for a replicated website and some traffic generating resources? Then tell them they can get their money back by first finding two other people to buy my biz op and then another to start generating some profit? Could I do that I wonder?
Hmmm.... 
Regards,
Rob Nyte
__________________
Source of Influence-- All our philosophy is dry as dust if it is not immediately translated into some act of living service.(Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi)
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TopMentor
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#46 · Posted: 13 Jul 2007 14:41 · Edited by: TopMentor
Rob,
Oh okay... so what you are saying is you are going to teach people the "think and grow rich" book and other great personal development books yourself instead of letting the book do the work? Sounds like a bad use of time if you ask me.
And as stated above I have an exclusive training website providing all kinds of useful and FREE information to my team members to help them get started and into profit. Don't talk to me about ethics and until you talk to CEO Brian Grant yourself, quit bashing his company.
I know quite a few people that have benefited from the products we are marketing and when 100% is paid back of each product sold, you can't beat that! Most of the MLM opportunities people are involved with pay about 50% or less of every dollar spent!
Sounds like a pretty ethical business to me... cheap or not, the products are good (it's been proven by many millionaires, some billionaires who have used them to help attain wealth) and the 100% payout for selling them can not be beat!
Regards,
Brian
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RayvinAndRob
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#47 · Posted: 13 Jul 2007 17:49
Hi Brian,
'Think and Grow Rich' by Napoleon Hill is a great book and I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to reprogram their mind for financial success. One of my favourite Napoleon Hill qotes comes from that book: "A goal is a dream with a deadline."
But I am not for one minute going to tell people, "Just read 'Think and Grow Rich,' or any other self development book, and you will automatically gain success in your MLM company."
I do not teach pop psychology. I teach people how to think critically. A business opportunity must meet five criteria in order to meet my high standards.
One of those criteria is the company absolutely must have a remarkable product that is both consumable and retailable.
There are four other criteria.
R2R's self development products are only remarkable in the sense that there is a huge market for them. People want your products. Of that there is no doubt.
However, they are not consumable nor are they retailable. It is a one-time, non-refundable, $1000 purchase with very, very few of those products being retailable. (A few of them do come with reselling rights.)
To get your products one MUST 1) join your business opportunity and 2) recruit at least four others into the business in order to make the sign-up fee back and start showing some profit.
Knowing nobody in their right mind will buy those products for $1000 when they can get them for next to nothing elsewhere on the net or even for free at their local liabrary, the company MUST dangle a tempting carrot in front of a potential buyer, i.e., the 2-up biz op.
A) Risk $1349 to join.
B) Find two more people willing to risk $1349.
C) Send your first $1998 to the person who sponsored you.
D) Find two more people willing to risk $1349.
E) Collect $1998 from those two people when they each find their first two buyers.
F) Provide ongoing training and motivation to your downline.
G) Do all of this without doing any personal selling, making any phone calls or answering any questions. Everything is fully automated. Any monkey can do it. Right?
Then why must you provide support for your team? Isn't the system supposed to do it all for them? Come on!
Warm regards,
Rob
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Source of Influence-- All our philosophy is dry as dust if it is not immediately translated into some act of living service.(Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi)
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TopMentor
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#48 · Posted: 13 Jul 2007 18:14
Here you go again Rob!
We were talking about being ethical and you run off on a big long tangent. How is R2R not an ethical business? It may be expensive according to you and others, but that doesn't mean it's not ethical. Some stores sell the same products as Walmart for a lot higher price!
And you are dead wrong about the 2Up. There are lots of 2 up programs out there that have been successful and many people will spend the money on the programs. Look at EDC Gold, Passport to Wealth, Liberty League, Coastal Vacations, etc. Some of these companies have been in business for over 10 years.
I also do Perfect Wealth Formula which is not a 2Up and am having great success with it so if someone wants to get into profit quicker, they can do PWF. You do get more leverage quicker with R2R, but PWF allows a new person to get into profit much quicker since they aren't required to pass up any sales to their sponsor.
Regards,
Brian
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RayvinAndRob
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#49 · Posted: 13 Jul 2007 19:06
Brian,
Yes, here I go again.
R2R's (a 2-up company) disclaimers covers the company's a** nicely.
And I agree with everything you say about 2-ups on your lead capture page for your 1 Step System Riches thingy. Great stuff!
And no I don't feel like evaluating it right now. Lol.
Good chatting with you. I'm learning lots. Thanks.
Warmly,
Rob
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Source of Influence-- All our philosophy is dry as dust if it is not immediately translated into some act of living service.(Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi)
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TopMentor
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#50 · Posted: 18 Jul 2007 03:03
I just had a 3 sale day yesterday with Perfect Wealth Formula and got 1 sale with Roadmap to Riches also which I'm just starting to market.
It was a nice way to start out the week!
Cheers,
Brian McCoy
McCoy Marketing Group
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RayvinAndRob
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#51 · Posted: 18 Jul 2007 14:52
Hi Brian,
My sincere congrats! Hats off to you my friend.
You've set up a team training center, too. Wow! A special back office loaded with special tools only your downline can access. That's understandable. Without those special tools would your downline be lost? Could someone not part of your team do what you do, Brian? In fact, I'm wondering if anybody could do what you do. Are YOU duplicatable, Brian? What if someone didn't have the money to do all the things you do? Could they still have the same massive success you are having? Don't answer that. You don't have to. Besides...your answer will no doubt be in the affirmative. Hey, I have an idea. Why don't you invite your team members to sign up to Work At Home so we could ask them how things are going with them. What kind of success are they having. And then maybe we could find people who are not on your team but who are with Roadmap To Riches to tell their stories? I wonder if there are any ex-R2Rs on Scam.com? Don't get me wrong. I don't mean to imply R2R is in any way a scam. But I think talking to people who are in it and who have tried it and left would be interesting, don't you think?
Rob Nyte
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Source of Influence-- All our philosophy is dry as dust if it is not immediately translated into some act of living service.(Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi)
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TopMentor
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#52 · Posted: 18 Jul 2007 23:05
Rob,
I couldn't agree with you more. If you have questions or remarks you can email me and I'd be glad to give you phone #'s of people on my team in R2R and Perfect Wealth Formula that you can ask how they are doing.
Brian
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RayvinAndRob
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#53 · Posted: 19 Jul 2007 14:16
Hi Brian,
Let's keep this simple.
Roadmap to Riches is a perfectly legal money making program. You and others are making money with it. If you weren't, then you would certainly drop out and warn others.
R2R has a wonderful product which is in demand. You buy it (the self-development e-books) for $999 and, at the same time, you join the money-making opportunity for free, i.e., there's no extra cost for joining.
If you decide to try making money with the R2R, then you can gain access to R2R's back office full of tools and tips to help you advertise your opportunity. To access it you pay a one-time $300 fee or $49.95 per month.
The company launched on June 21, 2007. It's brand new. Some people claim to have made 5 figure profits within their first few days or weeks. That is impressive and unbelievable, nevertheless, the claims are made and one must give the claimants the benefit of the doubt. Everyone is, so far, innocent; nobody has been proven guilty of making false claims.
While the company presents the appearance of a good income opportunity, it also strengthens its image of credibility and integrity with the following disclaimer:
"MAKING DECISIONS BASED ON ANY INFORMATION PRESENTED IN OUR PRODUCTS, SERVICES, OR WEB SITE, SHOULD BE DONE ONLY WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU COULD EXPERIENCE SIGNIFICANT LOSSES, OR MAKE NO MONEY AT ALL. "
It might seem counter-intuitive but that disclaimer does much to inspire my personal confidence in R2R's business opportunity. Why? Because it's down to earth and realistic and devoid of all the inauthentic hype most other opportunities bombard you with. So, in my humble opinion, it's a good thing.
Included in R2R's disclaimer is this further wise advice:
"USERS OF OUR PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND WEB SITE ARE ADVISED TO DO THEIR OWN DUE DILIGENCE WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING BUSINESS DECISIONS AND ALL INFORMATION, PRODUCTS, AND SERVICES THAT HAVE BEEN PROVIDED SHOULD BE INDEPENDENTLY VERIFIED BY YOUR OWN QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS. OUR INFORMATION, PRODUCTS, AND SERVICES ON ROADMAPTORICHES.COM SHOULD BE CAREFULLY CONSIDERED AND EVALUATED, BEFORE REACHING A BUSINESS DECISION, ON WHETHER TO RELY ON THEM."
Again, very wise advice. Especially since the disclaimer also admits to the following additional facts:
"ANY EARNINGS OR INCOME STATEMENTS, OR EARNINGS OR INCOME EXAMPLES, ARE FOR ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES ONLY. THERE IS NO ASSURANCE OR GUARANTEE THAT YOU'LL DO AS WELL AS YOU COULD MAKE MORE, LESS OR NOTHING WITH ROADMAP TO RICHES. ALL ESTIMATES AND EXAMPLES WERE BASED ON WHAT OTHERS HAVE ACCOMPLISHED WITH ROADMAP TO RICHES.
WHERE SPECIFIC INCOME FIGURES ARE USED, AND ATTRIBUTED TO AN INDIVIDUAL OR BUSINESS, SUCH AS THE TESTIMONIES, THOSE PERSONS OR BUSINESSES HAVE EARNED THAT AMOUNT. THERE IS NO ASSURANCE YOU'LL DO AS WELL. IF YOU RELY UPON OUR FIGURES; YOU MUST ACCEPT THE RISK OF NOT DOING AS WELL.
ANY AND ALL CLAIMS OR REPRESENTATIONS, AS TO INCOME EARNINGS ON ROADMAPTORICHES.COM, ARE NOT TO BE CONSIDERED AS AVERAGE EARNINGS.
THERE CAN BE NO ASSURANCE THAT ANY PRIOR SUCCESSES, OR PAST RESULTS, AS TO INCOME EARNINGS, CAN BE USED AS AN INDICATION OF YOUR FUTURE SUCCESS OR RESULTS.
MONETARY AND INCOME RESULTS ARE BASED ON MANY FACTORS. WE HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING HOW WELL YOU WILL DO, AS WE DO NOT KNOW YOU, YOUR BACKGROUND, YOUR WORK ETHIC, OR YOUR BUSINESS SKILLS OR PRACTICES. THEREFORE WE DO NOT GUARANTEE OR IMPLY THAT YOU WILL EARN MORE THAN OTHERS, THAT YOU WILL DO AS WELL AS OTHERS, OR MAKE ANY MONEY AT ALL. THERE IS NO ASSURANCE YOU'LL DO AS WELL. IF YOU RELY UPON OUR FIGURES; YOU MUST ACCEPT THE RISK OF NOT DOING AS WELL.
INTERNET BUSINESSES AND EARNINGS DERIVED THERE FROM, HAVE UNKNOWN RISKS INVOLVED, AND ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR EVERYONE. MAKING DECISIONS BASED ON ANY INFORMATION PRESENTED IN OUR PRODUCTS, SERVICES, OR WEB SITE, SHOULD BE DONE ONLY WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU COULD EXPERIENCE SIGNIFICANT LOSSES, OR MAKE NO MONEY AT ALL.
ALL PRODUCTS AND SERVICES BY ROADMAPTORICHES.COM ARE FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. USE CAUTION AND SEEK THE ADVICE OF QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS. CHECK WITH YOUR ACCOUNTANT, LAWYER OR PROFESSIONAL ADVISOR, BEFORE ACTING ON THIS OR ANY INFORMATION."
And that advice should be followed by anyone seeking any business opportunity.
At Your Service,
Rob Nyte
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Source of Influence-- All our philosophy is dry as dust if it is not immediately translated into some act of living service.(Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi)
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TopMentor
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#54 · Posted: 19 Jul 2007 14:47
Rob,
Absolutely... if you look at other company websites you will notice a very similar disclaimer.
It's just a good common sense legal practice to do for any home business company.
Warmly,
Brian McCoy
President, CEO
McCoy Marketing Group
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RayvinAndRob
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#55 · Posted: 20 Jul 2007 03:43
Brian,
I am here only to be truly helpful....
At Your Service,
Rob Nyte
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Source of Influence-- All our philosophy is dry as dust if it is not immediately translated into some act of living service.(Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi)
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nettebell
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#56 · Posted: 20 Jul 2007 11:01
Ok Rob and Brian You two have sure dominated the forum.
since you have both done quite a bit of research what are your thoughts on The Ultimate wealth package. I just signed up a few weeks ago and I'm patiently waiting and working. Have either of you had any experiance with them.
nette
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makemoneyonline
Joined: 3 Sep 2006
Posts: 866
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#57 · Posted: 21 Jul 2007 12:39
Quoting: nettebell I just signed up a few weeks ago and I'm patiently waiting and working. Have either of you had any experiance with them.
Too bad you didn't visit this forum before you signed up, or you probably would have changed your mind about it!
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TopMentor
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#58 · Posted: 21 Jul 2007 13:26
Nettebell,
Ultimate Wealth Package has some general information to it... it is basically information that the Rich Jerk has in his ebook.
It's not a bad thing... you can earn money with it, but the commissions are small and so you are limited to what you can spend on advertising to turn a profit.
Hope that assists...
Brian
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RayvinAndRob
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#59 · Posted: 21 Jul 2007 15:23 · Edited by: RayvinAndRob
Hello Nette,
Again, the best advice comes from Perfect Wealth itself. Look up its disclaimer statements and you won't go wrong if you follow its advice there. Copy and paste the following URL into your web browser and read Perfect Wealth's earnings disclaimer for yourself.
http://www.perfectwealthformula.com/earnings.html
At Your Service,
Rob Nyte
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Source of Influence-- All our philosophy is dry as dust if it is not immediately translated into some act of living service.(Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi)
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TopMentor
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#60 · Posted: 21 Jul 2007 15:37
Rob,
Nette was asking about Ultimate Wealth Package and not Perfect Wealth Formula.
Rob, I thought you were interested in helping people, but this doesn't seem to be the case as you obviously didn't read her post very carefully.
Regards,
Brian
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