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glitch00
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Joined: 19 Aug 2008
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#101 · Posted: 1 Sep 2008 03:06 · Edited by: glitch00
Well the appropriate term is that you start with no out of pocket costs. People who say that it is "free to join" are hyping people up and misleading people and of course in the end it counts as a "turn off" to the person and his/her views of the program as a whole. Think about it, if the very first members of FOCS advertised that their program is free to join and later on disappoint people that there needs to be this and that done, nobody would ever complete the process unless of course they are gullable. But with the growing userbase and increasing number of successful people, I don't think that's the case.
That is why most programs come with a free website and generated web page that contains all the right words necessary for promoting. There are a number of people that tend to alter it a bit to their liking in hopes of attracting more people. Some (not all) of those people who do end up making a mistake and mislead.
That is the purpose of getting people into live presentation calls hosted by admins/founders to avoid the instances of sponsors misleading people. The admins are very upfront on what they bring to the table. Sadly there are a few sponsors that do that say different things whether it be intentionally or unintentionally. It then now falls under the hands of the referral if he/she wants to believe what the admin is saying. Sponsors should be there to just clarify things in case they cannot understand. (which is what I try to do).
FOCS is generally advertised not to hype or mislead people but to go direct to the point and lay out all the facts in a single audio presentation. Now I attended this presentation and did my homework after that and so far I have no regrets of joining. As far as how the information got to me, neither my sponsor nor both of the founders have said a single lie to me and they pretty much filled all the missing holes.
But if you use the phrase "earn free cash". That is pretty much true because again, you start with no out of pocket costs and you don't have to deal with monthly membership fees and you can keep going about your business and start earning. I think that's great. 
By the way, these are just my viewpoints on things. I will be honest and say that I am a bit new to the whole marketing and online business thing and while continuing my commitment to FOCS, I can say that I've been learning so much on how things work. Of course I'd love to have clarifications from the veterans out here.
Hope this helps in some way Michelle.
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Many have heard of it... Some have given it a shot... Few have committed and they succeeded and earn free cash over and over. You can be just like them - http://www.iwantfreecash.info - John Ruiz
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fbl3ssingm
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Joined: 6 Aug 2008
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#102 · Posted: 1 Sep 2008 03:43
If I choose that route... well said.
Do you show the real route, or just the Fake Real one?
Sorry, but most of your systems do the same thing. This is the MLM. 
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fbl3ssingm
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#103 · Posted: 1 Sep 2008 03:53
glitch00: Once again, I made this long, I apologize for the information overload. Again, I just wish everyone gets along and all be friends in the end.
Thanks for your answer. Sounds very prompt.
Now, let me tell you a few things about this Profit Lance.
The profit lance system comes to you telling you that YOU WILL NEED TO PAY $77 dollars to learn how to make business online (MLM,...). So, yes, we're upfront.
I haven't received any cash in my pocket yet, although I've invested this $77. I have received a $42 amount on the Clickbank.com account, but this is it. This after 1 month of working, marketing, bla bla bla. I am kind of fed up with this. But, as I said... without work, we won't succeed.
I am even considering in requesting for my refund of $77 if within 1 month and 2 weeks I will not get at least $77 of my earnings (as the Profit Lance assures you that you'll get if you work - and yes, I have been working very hard...). I still have almost 2 weeks to get to the above point of refunding request.
Anyway, I have a full time job as an IT Engineer, so... this was just for fun and to see if the systems are really working. Profit Lance failed on providing us with a Free to modify the source code of the page, for you to add whatever MLM systems or promotions you want. This is the worst of them. Otherwise, I am really satisfied because this system thought me so much about marketing online. It really helped. That is why I might not even considering the refund inquiry.
So we'll see it later. And yes, if you will go on my blog you will see that I'm upfront with everything the system implies.
It is better to come with something directly, than to come with a "Free - Demo" opportunity. And later on, you'll get caught with some other stuff.
Again, I appreciate your reply and it was not long enough. I enjoy when people take their own time to reply to my postings. Thank you a lot.
Anybody else?
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glitch00
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#104 · Posted: 1 Sep 2008 04:20
Glad to know fbl3ssingm.
Umm, maybe you should start a new thread about Profit Lance and I'll post my thoughts there, just to keep things on topic. Not a moderator or anything, but I think it's best that way. Yeah yeah it's my fault for bringing that up, sorry everyone.
fbl3ssingm: Do you show the real route, or just the Fake Real one?
Well the people who checked out my website should be the ones who should answer, but personally I do try to show the real route because my goal really is to build a team and trust needs to revolve around that. So I always make sure I don't cut corners and say things that aren't true.
fbl3ssingm: Sorry, but most of your systems do the same thing. This is the MLM.
Mmmmm, nah. There's no levels in FOCS. Deeper parts of it involve a collective effort and networking elements, but the general roots of what FOCS is has nothing to do with MLM's and levels.
Like I said earlier, I'm quite new to marketing, and I can invite a person who is so experienced in marketing to join my system and in the end he can make more money than me. It's not a system where I can just invite an army and sit back and relax and have them bring all the cash to my feet. Those kinda people in those systems annoy me so much that I decided to build a team that a goal to make sure everyone earns. FOCS's general vision is to let everyone earn. All you need to do is follow the program and help each other out.
fbl3ssingm: It is better to come with something directly, than to come with a "Free - Demo" opportunity. And later on, you'll get caught with some other stuff.
Couldn't agree with you more. If ever I do that, well slip of my tongue, need to be careful sometimes.
fbl3ssingm: Again, I appreciate your reply and it was not long enough. I enjoy when people take their own time to reply to my postings. Thank you a lot.
Well that's good to know, I don't wanna post passages here hehe, thanks to for sharing that.
Best wishes to you sir.
John
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Many have heard of it... Some have given it a shot... Few have committed and they succeeded and earn free cash over and over. You can be just like them - http://www.iwantfreecash.info - John Ruiz |
fbl3ssingm
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#105 · Posted: 1 Sep 2008 15:01
glitch00: Well that's good to know, I don't wanna post passages here hehe, thanks to for sharing that. Best wishes to you sir. John
You're funny John.
You are free to post passages. At least you have one individual that reads these roman books. honestly, I enjoy it.
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TJamMoneyMan
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#106 · Posted: 7 Sep 2008 02:05 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
Sorry this is sooo long and drawn out folx, but so was my experience with these IFW's.
One thing for certain about completing IFW offers is that they are a complete pain in the 'u know what'.
Next, you will find your life slipping away as you spend countless hours trying to complete offers.
I guess they are a little better than doing surveys though!
I have completed and tried to complete offers on GIT R FREE, ZERO TO RICHES, ROCKET $120, and SWIFT REWARDS.
GIT R FREE, my first, was the only IFW that I was able to easily and quickly complete any offers on.
As for the rest:
After repeated frustrating attempts at completing the credits required to get paid, I once personally spent 10 hours, at one DETERMINED sitting, trying to complete 2 credits in offers.
I made it to just about 1.33 before I was FORCED to quit - for now.
I simply ran out of offers I could complete!
This other than spending $30 to $70 and/or 'varied' costs that you have no idea what will be.
(actually, I had completed 2.17 credits in offers, but not all were credited.)
Many offers were with PACIFIC WEB WORKS, which only allows you to complete ONE - though I am told there are ways to work around this.
Trouble is though, you often don't even know if the offer you are trying to complete is a PWW offer or not!
SOME of these IFW sites will have good information in the offer's thumbnail overview.
Most do NOT.
You only find out the truth of the offer, as you go through the lengthy process of trying to complete it.
Offers that are supposed to credit 'instantly' OFTEN do not.
AND you are not even allowed to contact customer support about this until as much as FIVE DAYS after you complete the offer!
FIVE DAYS after the offer was supposed to credit (some offers take as long as 5 days to 'credit').
Many offers require a credit card (NOT a debit card), and you'll need enough on your CC to be placed on 'hold' until you complete or cancel the 'trial period'. Again, you won't know this until you are in the offer completing process.
Some offers like LIFE LOCK for one, are advertised as FREE in the offers list, but when you go to do the offer, you'll find it indeed DOES cost - $30 in the case of LIFE LOCK.
Orders that were supposed to credit at a certain amount did NOT - they posted LOWER of course!
And the exact same offer, at different sites, will credit differently.
Basically, if you want the higher payment, you will be completing a LOT of offers - some with only 1/12 of ONE of the credits you need.
The high credit offers?
Don't count on them.
I completed offers that supposedly credited at 45%, or even 67% only to find out that the offer simply will NOT credit - the support team reply?
FUHGETTABOUTIT and just do ANOTHER offer!
And the higher crediting offers are expectedly, the most aggravating to complete!
Often you will need a phone that can receive TEXT messages to complete offers. But you won't find that out until you are well into trying to complete the offer.
And of course not only will you be getting lots of SPAM as a result, but you will get endless unwanted phone calls.
I can't even answer unfamiliar calls to my cell phone nowadays - I just wait for someone to leave a message!
Finally, many offers will charge your CC, even though you have cancelled the offer. The money you THOUGHT was there in your account is often placed on hold - fouling up your payments and ability to use your account the way you need to.
"Google" TODAY'S ESCAPES, and DEAL MAX for horror stories of
fraudulent charges.
I am now OUT the money I spent trying to complete enough offers to qualify - you don't get your rebate until you complete enough offers to get paid.
So much for ZERO OUT OF POCKET COST!!
Well, that's where I am with this.
Still trying to complete offers on about 3 different IFW sites, after more than ONE MONTH of effort!
I am entirely pissed off with this idea, and can't imagine sponsoring someone else to do the same thing(!!), but I am also determined to get my lousy payout - which at this point I am probably 'earning' about $.10 per hour if ANYTHING. That is, if I ever DO complete the required credits.
My only hope?
Waiting a while until new offers come along.
At this point, I have simply tried to complete every offer I was qualified to do, or was willing to pay as much as they have the nerve to charge you to complete.
They usually have at least a few offers you actually CAN complete.
At least that's the way it was when I began this journey.
The orders rotate (changing price and credit value as they do!).
I am hoping in a number of days, there will again be enough offers I can actually COMPLETE!
The IFW plan I was working on, claimed to get you $60 to $100 within 24 hours.
NO REFERRALS REQUIRED.
It's been over 24 DAYS!!
So far?
ZERO, NADA, GOOSE EGG!, $0, WALA-NA(Tagalog).
And enough time lost to write a novel!
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glitch00
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#107 · Posted: 7 Sep 2008 02:24 · Edited by: glitch00
TJamMoneyMan: Next, you will find your life slipping away as you spend countless hours trying to complete offers. I guess they are a little better than doing surveys though!
Yeah alot better and for me more fun than surveys.
TJamMoneyMan: After repeated frustrating attempts at completing the credits required to get paid, I once personally spent 10 hours, at one DETERMINED sitting, trying to complete 2 credits in offers. I made it to just about 1.33 before I was FORCED to quit - for now. I simply ran out of offers I could complete!
Think you should take a good look at the offers list and then do a calculating plan before getting started.
TJamMoneyMan: I have completed and tried to complete offers on GIT R FREE, ZERO TO RICHES, ROCKET $120, and SWIFT REWARDS. GIT R FREE, my first, was the only IFW that I was able to easily and quickly complete any offers on.
TJamMoneyMan: simply will NOT credit - the support team reply? FUHGETTABOUTIT and just do ANOTHER offer!
Sad... I think Git-R-Free has great support, guess it varies on what Freebie site you are doing.
I have no experience with Git-R-Free because me being from the Philippines, I can't register. I did guide my first referral through it and she breezed through 95% of the instants without any problems.
Anyway just from analyzing Git-R-Free I have developed a nice plan on how to do get a 5.0 credit with offers that are all instant, do not require products to be shipped and less than $20. Or a 7.0 credit plan under $50 Git-R-Free was just plain easy, my referral just breezed through it.
The main tedious/challenging part of doing these offers is just 2 things. 1. Reading the terms and agreeements. 2. Cancelling them on time.
If there are more challenges than that, chances are your sponsor isn't very dedicated to help.
And looking at some of the offers, some of them look interesting.
Anyway that aside, I'm so excited with my first payment of the Free Online Cash System.
TJamMoneyMan: WALA-NA(Tagalog
LOL
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Many have heard of it... Some have given it a shot... Few have committed and they succeeded and earn free cash over and over. You can be just like them - http://www.iwantfreecash.info - John Ruiz |
TJamMoneyMan
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#108 · Posted: 7 Sep 2008 02:52 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
glitch00: Think you should take a good look at the offers list and then do a calculating plan before getting started.
Kumasta P. ko!
Anyway, that 'calculating plan' idea, I learned pretty quickly!!
As I said, GIT R FREE, caused me no problems.
But after trying that SECOND IFW site, I learned the importance of the 'calculated plan'.
Real quick too!!
glitch00: The main tedious/challenging part of doing these offers is just 2 things. 1. Reading the terms and agreeements. 2. Cancelling them on time.
Now axually, this was the least stressful part of the entire process for me!
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glitch00
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#109 · Posted: 9 Sep 2008 14:06
Well that's good to know. Well my referral / new team mate is now liking the offers she tried and is planning to keep them. So the offers there are really nice. Too bad I can't try them
I'd probably get the ones that are seen on TV hehe.
Doing offers really shouldn't be much of a hassle. It just looks frustrating because of the grid style layout with flashy graphics.
It's even more flexible now with the new system.
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Many have heard of it... Some have given it a shot... Few have committed and they succeeded and earn free cash over and over. You can be just like them - http://www.iwantfreecash.info - John Ruiz |
TJamMoneyMan
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#110 · Posted: 9 Sep 2008 17:15
glitch00: Doing offers really shouldn't be much of a hassle. It just looks frustrating because of the grid style layout with flashy graphics.
That is soooo far removed from my experience until I just can't let it go uncommented.
I have just been sitting here trying to complete the lousy .83 credits I need to qualify at $120Rocketbills.com.
Each one of the offers from my 'calculating plan' has failed to come through. The less than $3 ones anyway.
In 2 cases, they won't accept a debit card.
4 other cases just won't load into my browser.
I bet the more expensive ones will have no trouble loading!
I get so agitated because I am always hearing how this is the 'easiest money you'll make online'.
NOT the case!
These IFW sites have been one of the biggest scams I have come across - as far as being true to what they present on their website.
They may actually pay off one day this decade, but I can't see where it's worth the time, trouble, and cost!!
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judyp
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#111 · Posted: 10 Sep 2008 20:04
Well the appropriate term is that you start with no out of pocket costs
I have to say that I disagree with this (I know, I'm the only one), and find the word "free" more accurate. There IS an out of pocket cost for someone signing up for FOCS or Zero2Riches. I'm not sure why people think it's accurate and honest to claim there is not. On the other hand, the word "free" is true in a very common way that it's used in marketing:
Say Amazon is advertising an item that's normally $29.99 for FREE. You go to the web page and see that the item costs $29.99, then there's a $29.99 rebate. You have to pay $29.99 out of pocket (yes!), then you fill out a form, mail it in, and in a couple of weeks you get a check in the mail for $29.99. You got your money back and you still own the item. So it was FREE. But there WAS an out of pocket cost! I just don't like this phrase "no out of pocket cost" for programs like FOCS and Z2N and I avoid using it. I'd far rather use the term "free" or even "free after rebate".
I also want to say to TJam, IFW really is not a scam. I've made tons of money with those sites, and got my ipod that way, but I think sadly today it's harder than it used to be. For one thing: competition. For another, you mentioned Pacific Webworks and that is a HUGE problem. I think today Zero2Riches is the best thing going because it only requires 1 credit, most people can do this by spending less than $5 (even with all the offers I've done I managed it with less than $10), and if you follow the plan after doing the ZPT site you can leave offers and crediting behind forever.
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glitch00
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#112 · Posted: 10 Sep 2008 20:14
I believe it refers to the fact that there is no such admin fees or the like. But about the line you'll need to see how it's placed
"You start with no out of pocket costs" start meaning after you go through the membership process. This is just how I analyze it though. Kinda like saying "at the end of the day, you start for free" Now that's really true. No need to talk about the entry process because that's explained in the call. When the numbers roll and shortly after the membership profit sharing, they will realize that they will actually receive money to join FOCS.
Though at some points you can say it's free after a rebate, but FOCS doesn't really use the term rebate anymore.
But, good point there judy, I do respect you.
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Many have heard of it... Some have given it a shot... Few have committed and they succeeded and earn free cash over and over. You can be just like them - http://www.iwantfreecash.info - John Ruiz |
judyp
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#113 · Posted: 10 Sep 2008 20:15
One more thing I just want to add here. When it comes to IFW sites I am totally against any that require more than ONE credit. I really think I should have known better than to get involved with FOCS to begin with because they were doing a 5 credit site, and even now they've reduced it but it still has to be 3.5 or 2.5 credits at minimum. Z2R switched to a 2 credit site but rather quickly realized their mistake and switched back to the one credit site. One credit sites are IT as far as I'm concerned. And better yet, one credit sites that pay on ONE referral, so you don't have them holding your money until you get two or three or five referrals.
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judyp
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#114 · Posted: 10 Sep 2008 20:18
"You start with no out of pocket costs" start meaning after you go through the membership process.
Yeah but that's like saying software is a "free download" - but then the software itself costs $69.95. Who really cares if if the DOWNLOAD is free.
The question is, does it do us any good marketing something as "free" or "no out of pocket cost", whether these terms are accurate or not, if it just makes people mad when they find out they have to spend money? My experience has been that it does not.
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glitch00
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#115 · Posted: 10 Sep 2008 20:29
Yeah I'm sure alot of people love to have fewer credits so they can refer more people. But I'll tell you how I see things.
A program like FOCS, isn't about referring as many people as possible. It's about getting people who are really serious to aid in a joint effort for everyones benefit. In fact, I really plan on just getting 5 direct referrals (or not more than 10) and then work with those 5 people. Of course more credits mean higher payout. If the system was 1.0 credits, you'd have to find more people to reach some numbers so you can leverage and personally I don't like working with too many people. I even plan on giving all of my referrals after the 5th to the ones under me because I did ensure that they will be successful.
3.5 / 2.5 is a pretty flexible balance and again if you do the whole "calculating plan" idea, you can pretty much attain the 3.5 / 2.5 credits while spending very very little and getting a "rebate" (i'll use that term again hehe) that is more than what you spent for giving you extra cash when you join on in.
Now I know you are not allowed to recommended offers, I didn't do that. Freebie sites have filters and what I did was the same, I just filtered all the ones that are FREE-$5, credit instantly, no shipping&handling, no loan related stuff, and no hefty req's.
So as a summary CFSS (FOCS's residual program) is the main thing here and the residual income. Lowering the credit requirements will require people to refer more to leverage it. Something I really don't enjoy. At one point, I want to stop replying to peoples e-mails and work with the team I have and stop advertising my site as well.
But that's the good thing with Z2R, now people have lots of options to choose from making everyone a winner. I believe there are some respectable comparisons between the 2 on YouTube. I personally respect the ones that respect both.
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Many have heard of it... Some have given it a shot... Few have committed and they succeeded and earn free cash over and over. You can be just like them - http://www.iwantfreecash.info - John Ruiz |
glitch00
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#116 · Posted: 10 Sep 2008 20:40
judyp: Yeah but that's like saying software is a "free download" - but then the software itself costs $69.95. Who really cares if if the DOWNLOAD is free.
Taking in your example you can say that after you successfully downloaded this piece of software, you get your cashback so it simulates the fact that nothing really came out of your pocket.
That's no lie, everyones been through it. Again if we kept on promoting lies nobody would join. If someone joined a program that promised a no out of pocket costs and then they spend money and get started without a cashback, that's already lying.
I always want to try and say what you get "after you become a member". That way nobody will really care how much they spend because they all know that when the process is done, it begins as if no money was spent in the first place.
Well that's how I was convinced to join the program. I was like.... wow you get started for free! I looked at the specifics.. do this.. do that.. do offers.. easy... pay for this... but thats not the catch.. etc. etc.
For a moment I wanted to make sure that you really start with no out of pocket cost so I researched and asked around. So everything is really cool. Got one person on my team recently and her profit sharing should be tomorrow.
And by the way, for the very selected few who doesn't believe in it or wants it truly free? My solution is to send them the money to complete the offers  I only do that if they have pleasing attitude hehe.
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Many have heard of it... Some have given it a shot... Few have committed and they succeeded and earn free cash over and over. You can be just like them - http://www.iwantfreecash.info - John Ruiz |
TJamMoneyMan
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#117 · Posted: 11 Sep 2008 02:45
glitch00: Doing offers really shouldn't be much of a hassle. It just looks frustrating because of the grid style layout with flashy graphics.
Perhaps.
But in MY case, it was a damn site more than 'just LOOKS frustrating'.
IT WAS!!!
I would think and recommend that it COULD be ez BUT, you need to be a full fledged member of the consumer community in order for that to happen.
A wide open credit card, or 2 or 3 (to do multiple PWW offers).
A land based and/or cell phone - WITH text messaging.
As a FRUGAL member of the consumer community, I have made it a point in my economic life, to do without UN-necessities, at least until I make my first Mil.
That may be what was causing some of my particular problems.
But I still would think that many people would run into problems doing these offers.
Why else would they have a support 'team'?
Bottom line is, these are INCENTIVE Based Free Websites.
Not SALARY CREATING Free Websites.
The INCENTIVE, is not supposed to be a SALARY!
Trying to earn an income from doing offers, (and surveys), seems to be a lot like trying to make a living by returning bottles and aluminum cans for the recycle payoff.
It can be done, but it involves a LOT of work!
You are doing something with IFW's that they were not made to accomplish.
They are just trying to get you to TRY a product, not make a living!
Just my opinion...
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glitch00
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#118 · Posted: 11 Sep 2008 02:50
Yeah that's right but we are talking about FOCS here. In FOCS you do a certain amount of offers only once, and then 80% possibility for you to get more than you spent for. Then after that no more offers just the fun and wonders of marketing.
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Many have heard of it... Some have given it a shot... Few have committed and they succeeded and earn free cash over and over. You can be just like them - http://www.iwantfreecash.info - John Ruiz |
TJamMoneyMan
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#119 · Posted: 11 Sep 2008 06:12
glitch00: Yeah that's right but we are talking about FOCS here. In FOCS you do a certain amount of offers only once, and then 80% possibility for you to get more than you spent for. Then after that no more offers just the fun and wonders of marketing
Same story on all the IFW's!
I am just here to dispel the myth that it's so easy to complete.
I just finished completing .83 offer of 2 needed.
THAT took about 3 hours!!
(don't even ASK how long the other 1.17 credits took!)
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glitch00
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#120 · Posted: 12 Sep 2008 05:00
Way cool TJamMoneyMan. You'd be a great mentor I'm sure.
Well I have here a special newsflash. I am due for my first payout! A big yey and a hip hip hoorayy!!! w00t! w00t!!
Now I'm from the Philippines and I got started completely new in the whole marketing thing. If I can do it surely anyone can. FOCS truly works if you are really a dedicated team player and now you don't have to be a top referral to earn.
It's funny that I got my first payout before my rebate hehe (overseas members have delayed rebates).
It's around my 45th day in FOCS so I finally made something happen before the 90 day commitment and I didn't spend even full time. Now time to support my team.
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Many have heard of it... Some have given it a shot... Few have committed and they succeeded and earn free cash over and over. You can be just like them - http://www.iwantfreecash.info - John Ruiz |
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