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SirThomas
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Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 60
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#81 · Posted: 27 Oct 2007 23:50
Quoting: bizmentor You guys want to TRY to discredit people who share REAL results like you think you can intimidate us in the process and drive us away with name calling, etc.
When did I try to intimidate you or called you names, Chad?
All I'm saying is that RFS is a system designed to filter people out,
so you don't have to talk to every single soul that felt "click happy"
and filled out the form...
I have people that joined me through RFS and without it. I use the
system, because it saves me a lot of time.
If I want to cold call or use different "front pages" and follow up
with every person who feels out for more info - I can... and you know it.
Everyone joins GRN. RFS is only one of the systems (most successful
one at this moment) available. Anybody can use it.
If I want give up personals and build straight downline - I can and I will if I feel like it.. 
It has nothing to do with RFS. I built my business that way before
and suggested this several months ago. As a matter of fact, some
early leaders in GRN did just that...gave up some personal sign ups
to get qualified through many levels. Nothing new.
If I see RFS not being effective any more, I will not use it. I never
joined RFS, I joined GRN. If someone wants to join my team, but
doesn't want to use RFS, they are welcome. If they want create
their own systems...why not?
But to suggest, someone should seek for alternative sponsor who
doesn't use RFS is ridiculous! LOL
would I be a better sponsor if I quit using RFS? LOL
All the best to you,
Thomas
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bizmentor
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Joined: 6 Oct 2007
Posts: 52
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#82 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 00:00 · Edited by: bizmentor
When my son asked where are all of these other income streams that the Inner Circle promised and all these conference calls with these top "experts" of network marketing, internet marketing, commodities, real estate, etc etc etc. were,, he was told until he until starts receiving $ 20,000 a month through the RFS he was not truly in the RFS "Inner Circle"... this with him paying his initial $50 only to be told he now would need to commit to $300 a month (after paying his "prequalifying payment to opt in") to the "leaders" for the back office of the RFS, and then to him putting the $2,995 on the line as well- and then he was told he was not getting the "Mentors" he was promised in all these other industries, much less any direct direction as to what worked marketing wise, other than "go max out your credit card and place some ads wherever you think might work"- or better yet- "order leads from our direct lead company or co- opt "(which happens to be owned by the same RFS leaders that charge you $300 a month for their back offices). Can anyone see a pattern here?
Do you want to make money not only for yourself, but also for your downline? RFS is pretty simple after you know the facts, it is about making money for the top and is based on transactions and not about helping your downline which can give you exponential growth in terms of income.
Sometimes the truth is something that frees you...
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kim_ward
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Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 69
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#83 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 00:07
Quoting: bizmentor Sometimes the truth is something that frees you...
Ok Chad, you are free, be happy. 
Have a wonderful weekend,
Kim
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bizmentor
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Posts: 52
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#84 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 00:17 · Edited by: bizmentor
RFS- it is based on people making money solely on their own transactional sales- and as a result does not offer the long term rewards of building a deep organization. There could not be two more different philosophies.
Quoting: SirThomas
Chad, I like you buddy...but I am afraid you are totally confused ;-(
RFS's only philosophy is to eliminate "phone calling
so, if I and others (and for purposes you) how would you suggest building a relationship with serious minded people who are wanting to build a business if you never speak with them, ask them what there goals are, what there needs are, etc. Is that a business strategy or a "let's see if we get lucky strategy in the people that opt in under us we never prequalify or talk to strategy"?
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RealityBytes
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Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 14
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#85 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 00:26
Kim, Terry, Chad,
I have no dog in this hunt (yet); although I've said I don't believe RFS is for me, it is as yet on limited data.
I see both sides here have a point; this *is* a thread about "RFS", not "Chad's team system", so I can see why Chad touting his system might be considered to exhibiting poor manners; and yet he is pointing out what he considers a flaw in RFS which absolutely is on topic.
However, these are just claims and non-specific anecdotal evidence, it's hard for me to discern any real facts without seeing the specifics... I guess you don't want to give away trade secrets (understandable), but is it really necessary, to either the forum's charter or to 'trade secrecy', to not get a little more specific in this forum?
Let's see if I can boil down the difference, and ask another question or too, to highlight what is 'special' about RFS (since that is the thread topic):
Kim says that RFS is designed to 'pre-qualify' the purchaser, apparently primarily by the $50 app fee, so you don't waste time on tire-kickers. Chad, on the other hand, seems to think that NOT talking on the phone in person turns away people that would be a good addition to the team, and that this is a failing of RFS. Fair enough claims both ways - but what is the real data, resulting conversions, placement comparisons, average costs, media differences, etc... we don't know.
But even without that specific data, those are both interesting points, and questions, to consider. To Chad - do you really think a $50 app fee would have turned away people that you have accepted after a phone call? Kim, have you run other surves or whatever on those who turned away from the $50 app, are you sure they are mostly tirekickers?
I am sure these are things people talk about all the time, internally - and I understand you don't want to give away all of this in public - but aren't at least the principles of which choices have been made and why, germane to what RFS is and what it can do?
And the big question for me remains: Exactly who are you 'pre-qualifying'? RFS's main claims seem to be that it's 1) practically automatic and 2) it works even if you don't understand why and 3) trust me it works, and 4) not just anybody can start - you have to pay $50 first.
Believe me when I honestly say I do not intend ANY disrespect, but this seems to tell me that RFS primarily qualifies people who 1) think it will be easy and 2) want something simple and 3) are willing to accept assertions as fact without evidence and 4) have $50.
RFS may or may not get lots of $50 signups, and perhaps even purchases; but for how long, and how strong?
These are questions to be asked, and answered, in this forum, correct? To a large degree, I think Chad is doing that, when pointing out what he sees as a drawback of RFS. I think he goes a bit over the line when he says how much he supports his team and how (on an RFS thread, yet) - implying, but without any real evidence, that marketers of RFS in general do not... in reality I am sure some, maybe most, do.
But the real question is, for the purpose of this thread especially, what does RFS itself promise, and does it deliver?
In any event I do really like what I have heard, personally, from Terri and Kim, and Terry and Chad... I believe that whomever signs up under any of these folks will get all the help they need. I'm just still doubtful as to the method used by RFS (mostly I like the fact that Terry's and Chad's ads have more information - but maybe that's just me...) and the way it is promoted.
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"Those who will risk nothing, risk everything"
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bizmentor
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Joined: 6 Oct 2007
Posts: 52
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#86 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 00:29
anyone care to respond to the numerous "promises" made by the RFS that are not being fulfilled?
That is the biggest complaint I hear from people and the biggest complaint I heard from my son....
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SirThomas
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Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 60
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#87 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 00:44
Not nice, Chad.... If you quote me, do it properly. Here it is:
Quoting: SirThomas RFS's only philosophy is to eliminate "phone calling and talking to pretty much anybody who felt like to put their name on your site...
As you can see, you missed a vital part of what I was describing:
"calling anybody who feels like to put their name on some forms..."
Big difference here. And that's all I'm talking about.
As a matter of fact, you don't need to set up any "systems" to talk
to people.
I don't know how long you've been with GRN, but there was no
systems when they first started. Only that site with a movie
provided by the company.
Yet my upline made 20k+ in three weeks... entirely by phone.
But what he was doing is NOT duplicatable and we all know it. If it
was, we would never hear about RFS or any other system.
No system is perfect and if something doesn't bring results you
count on, you have all rights to use something else. But, you don't
have to switch teams to do so...
Thomas
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bizmentor
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Joined: 6 Oct 2007
Posts: 52
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#88 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 00:50 · Edited by: bizmentor
Reality-
I do applaud your continuing to do your due diligence. I might want to correct your perspective on one single issue-and that of kim's. This thread is about any one considering RFS- not a promote thread about RFS as some would like it to be. I apologize if some of the facts I (and others) present make others nervous, but the facts are that RFS does not work for many like some say it does. I have not "touted my system" like some would like to turn this thread into rather than a "pro RFS thread" like some would like this to be. We are simply presenting the facts.
I think your own question sums things up -
"Believe me when I honestly say I do not intend ANY disrespect, but this seems to tell me that RFS primarily qualifies people who 1) think it will be easy and 2) want something simple and 3) are willing to accept assertions as fact without evidence and 4) have $50."
Is it right to ask someone that is serious (most of the people in my own downline are serious minded business professionals, though I will absolutely not take away the potential of the stay at home Mom, like our own Jill, who is unbelievable and has great support from her husband, Mike who have a great need, though not a lot of experience yet- no problem, we can help train you and I can get Jill on the phone, personally so she can share her own experiences with you, if need be (together they have a beautiful 7 month old guy, who is a super infant!) to take some action. But is it appropriate to do so without all the facts and by overpromising? For instance, they don't disclose the $ 300 a month until you opt in, do they?
I do think that the $50 fee will drive some otherwise serious people away that might otherwise be great team members. I will take personal contact with someone on the phone 10,000 times over someone that happens to opt in and spend the bucks on a site based on many, many promises that unfornately are promised but do not materialize within the RFS. That is just me. The bigger picture is the downline exponential and "giving back" approach to doing things rather than the RFS "make my day" by adding someone transactionally to a single vertical downline like RFS promotes. There is a huge difference.
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SirThomas
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#89 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 01:07
Quoting: RealityBytes But the real question is, for the purpose of this thread especially, what does RFS itself promise, and does it deliver?
What do you mean by "promise"? You mean what it does and how it
works?
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Thomas
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bizmentor
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Posts: 52
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#90 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 01:13
I think he is referring to all the promises that are not delivered, Sir Thomas.......
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SirThomas
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#91 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 01:36 · Edited by: SirThomas
Quoting: bizmentor I do think that the $50 fee will drive some otherwise serious people away that might otherwise be great team members.
That is very possible. It will also eliminate 100's that don't qualify for
my time. I am a busy entrepreneur and I'd rather spend quality time
with people who are already on my team or are seriously considering joining me.
On the positive side, every lead who goes through the first step
(fills out the form) STAYS in your database and you can contact
them if you wish. You can also WAIVE the $50 and invite them to
see what you've got.
Remember, this is YOUR business. You're in control, nobody can
tell you what to do... like some might be suggesting.
Quoting: bizmentor I will take personal contact with someone on the phone 10,000 times over someone that happens to opt in and spend the bucks on a site based on many, many promises that unfornately are promised but do not materialize within the RFS. That is just me.
You mean you'd rather talk on the phone to one lead who filled out
the form on the site promising to build his downline than to.... have
10,000 people paying $50 to learn what you have?
I'm just kidding here, Chad. I'm sure that's not you were implying
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bizmentor
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#92 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 01:45 · Edited by: bizmentor
goodness, Sir Thomas,
surely you do not suggest what you say... I certainly do not talk to 10,000 others to find one or ten or twenty that are serious!
What I was saying is I will take a serious inquiry that knows the facts about the product 10,000 to one over someone who is attracted to the RFS who does not represent themselves honestly and truly deliver all they promise.
Honesty can make life successful, dishonesty makes life totally difficult at best.
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Jill Ellen
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Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 1
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#93 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 02:04
Hello to all.
Thanks Chad that for that wonderful introduction!! You guys have to keep in mind that Chad really loves what we have to offer people and really believes in what we are creating here. His intent is to share that with like-minded business people. There is no harm in offering them an alternative to RFS. Some people like dark chocolate and others like milk chocolate....it is still chocolate and it still tastes good!! What may be bitter to some may be sweet to others. Diversity is what makes the world go round and the bottom line here is that we are all offering something brilliant.
People relate to different people and like working with different people. When someone does their due diligence they will find their place in GRN. It is imperative to love what you do and love the people you are doing it with.
I am a very successful work at home mom with a beautiful 7 month old baby and a darling husband. Chad and I recently met in Toronto and I must say that I was very impressed by all that he has brought to the table. I respect him greatly for he speaks the truth. I have absolutely nothing against anyone apart of RFS but I can definately see what he is saying here. I paid that $50 to opt in and learn about the wonderful membership we have to offer people, not just the business opportunity. As a matter of fact I almost joined RFS. I did my research because it just felt off to me to have to pay that fee. I can qualify someone quicker over the phone and decide whether or not I choose to work with them. I want to hear them and know them. That's an application process to me...to feel them out and see where their head is at. I have nothing against it, I just prefer to handle business in a different way. Lastely, I love the idea of presenting just the membership to people. Travel is a 7 billion dollar industry, it would be silly to leave that out.
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RealityBytes
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Posts: 14
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#94 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 05:18
Quoting: bizmentor apologize if some of the facts I (and others) present make others nervous, but the facts are that RFS does not work for many like some say it does. I have not "touted my system" like some would like to turn this thread into rather than a "pro RFS thread" like some would like this to be. We are simply presenting the facts.
Thanks, and a mea culpa from me... when I posted my last comment, I thought I had caught up with all the posts since I had last read this thread... in fact I had missed the last 3 or 4, in which you and Kim both gave plenty of details - not quite so much as to the methods, but what the real difference is, and that has been helpful. I need to review them all, as well as review the pages linked from everyone's signatures.
Not that I am the final arbiter of the facts here or anything like that, but I do feel I'm getting a more solid feel for them.
Am I a tirekicker? You bet I am! I'm also a pilot, and I wouldn't dream of lighting the fires before kicking the tires!
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SirThomas
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Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 60
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#95 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 07:28
Quoting: bizmentor goodness, Sir Thomas, surely you do not suggest what you say... I certainly do not talk to 10,000 others to find one or ten or twenty that are serious! What I was saying is I will take a serious inquiry that knows the facts about the product 10,000 to one over someone who is attracted to the RFS who does not represent themselves honestly and truly deliver all they promise. Honesty can make life successful, dishonesty makes life totally difficult at best. __________________ Chad
Chad,
I was just joking...
But we both know it's not about any $50 (fully refundable), but the
purpose itself...
As I said before, anybody is free to use any qualifying system they
want... You can ask people to fill out some basic form and then call
them back if you wish...
As a matter of fact, you don't need to use any qualifying system.
Just call purchased leads and invite them to a presentation. Many
people do this very successfully...
You can generate 200 leads, then call them all back to find few
good people. You can also generate 200 leads and let them qualify
themself to end up with 3 good people...
Either scenario will work. Both will bring some people on board.
Both will also miss some people... These ARE the facts.
Success to you all
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SirThomas
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#96 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 08:14
Jill, welcome to the board.
Quoting: Jill Ellen I can qualify someone quicker over the phone and decide whether or not I choose to work with them. I want to hear them and know them. That's an application process to me...to feel them out and see where their head is at. I have nothing against it, I just prefer to handle business in a different way.
That is exactly what I was talking about. YOU made YOUR choice.
That IS the way YOU want to work. RFS offers a different option.
Not everyone will like RFS and not everyone will like other options...
I still don't like everything about RFS! LOL ...But it does what it is
supposed to do.
Quoting: Jill Ellen Lastely, I love the idea of presenting just the membership to people.
presentation... maybe in the future?
Quoting: Jill Ellen There is no harm in offering them an alternative to RFS.
Generally, I would agree with this comment. However, this is not
the right place to do so. This thread is about RFS, not alternatives.
There is no excuses for not respecting it.
If you don't believe me, ask TerryG...
He will tell you what my position is on hijacking the thread for
"personal gain". I already expressed myself pretty clearly on WAHM
board. And that was regarding other RFS members, just so you know
Anybody can always start another thread about RFS alternatives
or about GRN systems available. I think that's could be a great thread.
BTW. I have no problems with how you build your organization. It
was my original intention to do the same, starting in April. Right
after I suggested it, the idea was challenged as a form of "financial
incentive" to join... That was not allowed by the company at that time.
Also, company mentioned introducing "matching bonuses" on all
personal sign ups... Things got sketchy.
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kim_ward
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Posts: 69
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#97 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 09:52
Quoting: bizmentor What I was saying is I will take a serious inquiry that knows the facts about the product 10,000 to one over someone who is attracted to the RFS who does not represent themselves honestly and truly deliver all they promise. Honesty can make life successful, dishonesty makes life totally difficult at best.
Chad, could you please stop now. These kind of posts make
GRN and all rep's look bad. It's just not good business,
and we have good things to offer. You may not like RFS,
and that's ok, but to paint the picture of the people using
it like you did is wrong.
Kim
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kim_ward
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#98 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 10:02
Quoting: RealityBytes Thanks, and a mea culpa from me... when I posted my last comment, I thought I had caught up with all the posts since I had last read this thread... in fact I had missed the last 3 or 4, in which you and Kim both gave plenty of details - not quite so much as to the methods, but what the real difference is, and that has been helpful. I need to review them all, as well as review the pages linked from everyone's signatures. Not that I am the final arbiter of the facts here or anything like that, but I do feel I'm getting a more solid feel for them.
Hi RB, Thomas filled in some god info on RFS as well, and
as you can see it's just a system used in GRN. There are
some things Thomas and I like and do not like about it,
but as he said, it does what it suppose to do, and I think
many people would love a system like this online.
I have been wanting to create a system like this over the
years myself, and think many of the aspects of it are simply
genius.
Some people may complain of the costs, and I honestly did
not see why anyone would pay for it either, but then I thought,
if we were to open our team info and system to all, we'd charge
what we thought it was worth too, as I am sure anyone would.
In fact we have many people contact us asking to use team
stuff, (or they just take things from our sites without asking)
so I know people would pay to use it, and RFS is not any
different, and we are lucky we can pay to use it instead of
not being able to use it at all.
If you have any blanks that need to be filled in about RFS,
to decide if it is for you or not, feel free to ask away.
In the meantime, have a great Sunday!
Kim
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moneyinmypocket
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Posts: 80
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#99 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 10:22
Hi Kim,
To be honest, your associating the RFS with GRN and all its reps in general is what risks painting a bad picture of GRN.
I've had a ton of people who told me that after seeing the RFS front page, they decided it looked way too scammy. They automatically associated seeing this shirtless dude with GRN, which is absolutely false.
The GRN is NOT the RFS. If we don't agree with what the RFS is doing, it is only that, and that makes no suggestion that the people who USE the RFS are bad or dishonest people or that GRN is related to the "untruths" presented in the RFS.
We all love GRN and know that it's a fantastic - real - very profitable business. Chad - or any of us are not implying anything that you are suggesting. I hope you can see past this.
ps. Great to see you Jill,Phill & Gang!
All the best,
Terry
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bizmentor
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Posts: 52
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#100 · Posted: 28 Oct 2007 19:09
Welcome to the forum, Thor.
With the philosophy you have you will do very well in this business.
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