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nofreeride
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Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 31
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#41 · Posted: 2 Jan 2007 00:33
Quoting: promagi Did you also know that he is currently making $111,000.00 per month RESIDUAL in Agel as a distributor after only one year?
Have you seen his checks or just taking his word for it like a good little MLM sheep would do?
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malibumentor
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 351
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#42 · Posted: 2 Jan 2007 03:09
Find it very hard to believe Gage isn't making money from sales of his books, copywriting course, and training cds.
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promagi
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#43 · Posted: 2 Jan 2007 09:19 · Edited by: promagi
It dumb-founds me how you can possibly disagree with anything I have said.
Simple.. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I re-read your posts all all I see is frustration and hot air.
If you really "are" a doctor, that would explain the "Holier Than Thou Attitude". Not painting a broad brush here. I know some fantastic Doctors who "get it". Some of who are in my organization!
But for some... well let's just say, they think they know it all. 
You think I am just starting out and that I have experienced no success yet. Again it shows your ignorance. I have several hundred people in my organization since January. You are living in a fantasy world where no one ever makes it in MLM. It's people like you who perpetuate the false myth that people are unsuccessful in this industry.
I know people who are making $30,000 per month with no previous MLM experience in Agel who started this year! And they did it with no medical degrees LOL.
You make $90.00 and hour as a doctor...and we're all supposed to be impressed? I made $175.00 and hour when I was an entertainer at kids parties! Yes, I used to be a magician... now I am sure you will have something clever to say about that too.
I think I am starting to see the real reasons behind your angst. It's a shame really.
And yes, I know for a fact what Randy Gage makes is true... and it's more than any doctor I know.... deal with it.
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promagi
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#44 · Posted: 2 Jan 2007 09:27
malibumentor,
All I know is that he did sell the company and he is now totally focused on Agel.
If he still has some sort of deal going with his old company thats really hear nor there. The point I am making is that he is doing far better with now that he is at about 1 million dollars a year.
And I do agree with you that people make money in training. I gave Ellie Drake a few thousand for personal coaching for my wife and I have spent at least that attending Todd Falcone seminars in Seattle (I am on the east coast). So I am well aware of the money these guys make. But even Todd still works his MLM businesses because he knows that training is finite.
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malibumentor
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 351
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#45 · Posted: 2 Jan 2007 13:00
Lot of folks have been burned by buying into company culture that says "only promote us" and you will prosper. I'm not saying AGEL is this way or that it will fold or encounter problems.
MLM companies sometimes don't work out for people however and its good, especially in this age, when its simple, to have multiple incom streams from affiliate programs and whatnot.
The MLM biz has a high churn and burn rate and lots of people jump from company to company. The pool of people interested in MLM is far larger than the pool interested in a specific company or type of product line, so offering marketing tools and training makes sense.
Also, since the average MLM guy quits his MLM and goes into another one every 90 days!, dealing in tools, training and leads (which I don't sell, myself) is a way to not only bring in steady cash but also increase the size of one's list.
If you have sold a book or something to a guy and he likes it... he might join your deal when his doesn't pan out.
This is a way to get your foot in the door and build a list of people who aren't even (currently) looking for a new deal...
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promagi
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Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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#46 · Posted: 2 Jan 2007 13:07
malibumentor ,
Don't be shocked, but I agree with just about everything you just said 
I am with a lead affiliate program so we agree there. And I was with Leaders Club which is a training MLM as a secondary but I found it was taking focus off of my primary. But that's not saying it's a bad thing. Plus some companies do not allow multiple deals...affiliate programs excluded as they are not MLM in many cases.
People jump from the company to company for the same reasons they would switch any business. We are first and formost representing a product line and in the real world, some products have more acceptance in the marketplace than other. It's simple economics. Not all MLM's are created equal no matter what anyone else will tell you.
If you have sold a book or something to a guy and he likes it... he might join your deal when his doesn't pan out.
No question about it! you are 100% on target about that.
So, we agree on this one... cool
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nofreeride
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Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 31
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#47 · Posted: 2 Jan 2007 15:18 · Edited by: nofreeride
Promagi,
Explain to me what it is again that you don't like in my posts. I am going to ask you a few questions. Just please answer them. Perhaps these questions are just philosophical mumbo-jumbo and they don't really matter. Be honest with me for a change. Rather than criticizing what you consider to be anger and frustration can you humor me for a moment and perhaps take it as coming from someone seeking the truth. Because that is how I see it. Because I feel that you don't truly read all of my post. You skim through them and glean out of them what offends you and you react to it. Like the fact that I am a doctor. It's in every posting and you just now caught onto it. Also, so you made $175/hour. And no I don't have something funny to say about that. I have a friend who is a clown and I think it is pretty cool. However, I don't know many clowns who work 144 or more hours per month on a consistent basis. If I make $500/hour once a month, it really doesn't make me much money does it? Again...here are the questions.
1)Is WORK the ONLY key to success in MLM?
2)Can you have 200 people in your organization and not be making any money?
3)Do you have to go to meetings to succeed in MLM?
You made the comment "if" I really am a doctor and "holier than thou attitude." Why would I lie about being a doctor? Also, are you saying that you don't have a holier than thou attitude? Go look in the mirror. I am an emergency physician in Moberly, Missouri which is about 2 1/2 hours from St. Louis. I am married and have two children one that was born 2 days ago. I gross $260,000 per year. Now, I in no way consider money as a measure of success in this world. If you do, I feel sorry for you. I am merely pointing out my income as a point of reference. I am not, however, ignorant of the fact that money affords certain privileges. I have NEVER ever said that I do not believe that anyone can make money in MLM. I know someone in Des Moines, IA who makes $150,000/year in Quixtar. My upline worked his business full time but he only made about $40,000/year which I guess isn't bad consider the poor success rate in MLM. I know Randy Fairchild, Dr. Martin, Larry Winters and Bill Britt. I have not spoke to them for 3 years but I have met them. I spent personal one on one time with Dr. Martin when I was working Quixtar. They all made well over $500,000/year. I saw one of Dr. Martin's checks for $40,000 one month and that was one of many checks for that month. Therefore, I personally know people who can make it is MLM. The point that I was making that malibumentor gets but you don't get b/c you choose to take personal offense is that the success rate is very, very, very low and it isn't b/c these people didn't want to succeed, that they didn't work hard or have the right attitude. If you disagree with that, you are not being honest with yourself. I truly believe I could succeed in a network marketing company. I truly believe if I wanted to I could succeed with agel. I just don't want to. I am satisfied at this moment with being a doctor making $260,000/year. All and I mean all of the people who have approached me about getting into a network marketing company I make more money than they do and none of them have ever been succeessful. Again, my point isn't that you can't succeed in MLM. Please make note of that. But they didn't even though some of them gave me hell about not joining and about how much money they were going to make.
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promagi
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Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 34
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#48 · Posted: 2 Jan 2007 16:59
First,
Congratulations on the birth of your child. That eclipses anything we are saying in this exchange. That's wonderful and I wish the family all the best in that regard.
First off,
Do you really need to ask why I am offended? You started this by ranting and raving about all the "hogwash" as you put it. You Single me out in particular several times before I even responded to your diatribe. Your handle alone tells me a lot... "nofreeride". Why would someone even take the time to make that username and feel the need to bash those of us who are successful? Where is the class, where is the intellectual discussion? If you want respect, learn to give some first.
But I am going to answer your three questions.
1)Is WORK the ONLY key to success in MLM?
2)Can you have 200 people in your organization and not be making any money?
3)Do you have to go to meetings to succeed in MLM?
1. No, work isn't the "only" key.. However, it is the most important and the majority people fail precisely because they think it "IS" a free ride and do not follow the systems we have in place. My experience has been that in all cases to my knowledge, those who follow the proven plans succeed. Those who shuffle papers in the office or watch the company video 15 times and tell themselves that they are working do not succeed, then blame it on the company and industry.
2. Actually that depends on the pay plan. In a binary, if one leg has 200 people in it from the upline and the other leg (the one that needs to be built by the team member in question) has nobody. Then no, they make no money and thats how it should be because, the did no "work". There's that word again.
But they did have all the qualifcations built for them, so now everyone they sponsor is pure profit for them. Very nice!
3.Absolutely not! But it helps. You cannot get the same energy from a phone seminar or website that you can at a meeting. I've sponsored my top leaders over the phone.
Thats as honest as I can be. I hope from here on out we can be a bit more civil to one another.
Bob
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nofreeride
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Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 31
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#49 · Posted: 2 Jan 2007 23:41 · Edited by: nofreeride
Promagi,
Thank you for answering my questions, and please accept my apologies. To be fair I mentioned you once in my December 17th posting, no more. However, I have read through my postings again and I agree with you it does seem like a rant and rave. It was. It was not meant to be directed to you necessarily. It was meant to expel some disbeliefs which I still profess to be true. The upline I would respect the most would be the one who says to me, "look, I can't guarantee your success b/c I can't guarantee your work habit and alot of what you hear from others in our company may be a load of crap...but I will do whatever I can to be fair and honest with you and to help you be successful."
Thanks for your congrats on our new baby. My wife comes home from the hospital tomorrow and I have a few days off to spend with my family. From your second to last posting, I now understand your username. Promagi...professional magician. Took me awhile.
Take care.
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promagi
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Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 34
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#50 · Posted: 3 Jan 2007 09:28 · Edited by: promagi
Apology 100% accepted and I'm glad that vibe is behind us. There is nothing I dislike more than that kind of discourse.
To be fair I mentioned you once in my December 17th posting, no more.
Yes, I see that. I take back the comment that you mentioned me more than once prior to the exchange. And in the interest of full disclosure, I get extremely defensive when I feel my company and the industry threatened so perhaps I overracted in my posts as well.
I cannot change your views. They are what they are because of what you experienced and thats the way we all learn. When we feel we got burned the last thing we want to do is experience that pain again.
You said:
The upline I would respect the most would be the one who says to me, "look, I can't guarantee your success b/c I can't guarantee your work habit and alot of what you hear from others in our company may be a load of crap...but I will do whatever I can to be fair and honest with you and to help you be successful."
I agree with that completely.
The first thing I do when I call a cold lead is tell them that this is "NOT" a job. This is a "performance" based business much like Real Estate and Insurance Sales. (yes and that weeds out tire kickers and those that think this is an entitlement program immediately).
However, unlike the two examples mentioned, this business for the same amount of effort (which if you are familiar with Realtors is a good amount) they can build residual income which is the crowning benefit of what we offer.
This is "business" and in business there are never ANY guarantees. However, there are programs that have a much better chance at success than others due to any number of external and internal factors. Again I say that not all MLM's are the same.
You were in Quixtar (Amway) and in my opinion that would be one of the toughest programs to get off the ground. Why? Because Amway, even though they are the most successful MLM ever with over 8 billion dollars in sales also have one of the worst reputations for field practices in history. They also have a stair-step breakaway compensation plan that is EXTREMELY difficult to make money with until you are at the top levels.
This business is not for everyone. We are looking for people who are qualified for this type of work. If anyone is ever pressured to get into a deal then that is just the type of behavior that causes threads like this and I totally oppose that.
I didn't get into this business to get rich. Though hey... that WOULD be nice I got into this because my goal is to create transferrable wealth. My oldest daughter suffers from moderate to severe ADHD. She is doing better and better every day. But when I learned that I could create an income stream that I could will to her someday, that was my goal. Create a small legacy so that I never have to worry about her financially.
But hey, I'll take the free car once I qualify 
I am confident Agel can bring me to my goals. But I can't get there if I bring people into my business and they fail. I have the obligation to do whatever I can to make them successful. Luckily, Agel provides me with the opportunity to place people under others so that they see a growing organization. Yes, they have to share the load but when we work as a team it all becomes more viable.
I really apologize for what happened to you in Quixtar. I wish you were incredibly successful so that we were supporting each other rather than tearing each other down. That's not the way this should be and it helps no one attain their goals and dreams.
Again, good luck with the baby, I truly wish you all the best!
Bob
*edited a few times for typos*
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nofreeride
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Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 31
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#51 · Posted: 3 Jan 2007 10:53
Thank you. You seem to have a lot of experience and I'm sure you will do well in Agel. Take care.
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isthisforreal
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Joined: 3 Jan 2007
Posts: 1
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#52 · Posted: 3 Jan 2007 13:33
we are being approached by a good friend about this "business" and it is relentless... EVERY time we get together, we conclude with this disscussion and of our "opportunity you just can't let slip away". Question: Where do you find these people to start your business end? This is something I DO NOT want to burden my friends with as I see what it is doing on this end. My husband and I were naive enough to sign up with a couple with Amway when we were in our 20s and it was just as it is stereotyped. Get your friends and family on board and build your business... the product seemed like a last result... getting your network of people was important... Pyramids... this to me sounds like a Pyramid even though Agel doesn't want to hype it as this... We don't want to be known as the people to avoid because we want to recruit our friends and family. Any feedback on this?
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nofreeride
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Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 31
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#53 · Posted: 4 Jan 2007 17:43 · Edited by: nofreeride
I don't think Agel is a pyramid. I do believe Agel is a legitimate network marketing or MLM company (however you want to word it). It's just the type of approach that your friends are doing with you that turns me off as well. However, if someone is truly interested in a certain company, I don't feel it is necessarily inappropriate to ask friends or family if they might be interested in looking at the company or evaluating the business plan. We normally doing with any other product or service including stock tips. It's the manner in which we approach people that is important not what we are approaching them about! Just remember not every MLM is the right one for everyone and MLM does not appeal to everyone's personality for whatever reason. Is MLM good? Of course, it is. It is an excellent way to establish a stream of income which Kiosaki likes to call passive income. Real estate, investments, businesses, etc., can do the same thing. Again, be honest with your friends and your intentions, but I would advise you to take a legitimate look at the company and perhaps some other companies if you are looking to develop another source of income. If someone makes less than $40,000/year, a home based business is a good way to develop more income. If someone makes more than $40,000/year, a home based business is an excellent idea for the tax advantages as well. Be smart, be honest, be informed! I think promagi and malibumentor could also offer you some good advise. I'm not successful in network marketing, but promagi is and malibumentor seems to do well with direct sales. They can offer you another point of view. Good luck!
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promagi
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Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 34
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#54 · Posted: 4 Jan 2007 21:14 · Edited by: promagi
Quoting: isthisforreal we are being approached by a good friend about this "business" and it is relentless... EVERY time we get together, we conclude with this disscussion and of our "opportunity you just can't let slip away". Question: Where do you find these people to start your business end? This is something I DO NOT want to burden my friends with as I see what it is doing on this end. My husband and I were naive enough to sign up with a couple with Amway when we were in our 20s and it was just as it is stereotyped. Get your friends and family on board and build your business... the product seemed like a last result... getting your network of people was important... Pyramids... this to me sounds like a Pyramid even though Agel doesn't want to hype it as this... We don't want to be known as the people to avoid because we want to recruit our friends and family. Any feedback on this?
nofreeride hit the nail on the head with his observations. I don't disagree with a thing.
But I will ad that your friends are either too pushy or they really want to work with you which is a compliment of sorts but still is not the way you should be approached. They should give you materials, and ask politely if you will review them. If they give you "Secrets of the Multi-Million Dollar Producers CD" and it doesn't strike a cord with you then to be honest, this business is probably not for you.
But if you join your friends, there are most definately ways to build the business without ever talking to a family member. Keep in mind that the Agel training does revolve around the warm market "your family and friends" but I am proof that the business can be built in the cold market "people you do not know".
To do this you need to do two things.
1.You need to seek out cold market training. A good friend of mine Steve Sakal from Leaders Club has a three month program that will teach you everything you need to know in order to successfully work the cold market. But that is by no means the only resource. There are many good tapes and books on the subject as well.
2.you need to either advertise yourself as it is a legit business... OR you need to find a good source for Biz-Opp leads that you can purchase for a reasonable price.
In the final analysis, here is what you need to know about building this way. The cold market is a slower build... you need to play the numbers. It will take longer but it can be done and quite effectively.
When I enroll a new team member I tell them that the advantages to working the warm market are two-fold.
Generally you can get the momentum going quicker and it's FREE. But that doesn't mean pestering people who are not interested. Present the materials and let it go after that.
Also, remember that the same people in your sphere of influence who are not interested now could be once you are successful to a degree.
Agel is Network Marketing and is a bit different than Amway. But it is not a pyramid which are illegal. You are in a business that pays your for creating a sales force.
The products in our company are not only important... they are the sole reason we are growing the way we are!
You can take the tour of the company on my site (link below). Then if you like what you see you can go back to your friends and work out how you would like to build the business with them.
You can contact me anytime with questions.
Best!
Bob G.
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78bosoxr1
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Joined: 7 Jan 2007
Posts: 10
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#55 · Posted: 7 Jan 2007 11:49
To Promagi-
I have been researching Agel business opportunity the past few months and would like to know how you have found working for the company, your personal success/setbacks while trying to establish your downline.
What kind of expenses have you had to pay out and what type of income are you starting to see after what period of time.
I have had a few struggles (Rexall/Amway) in the past and am still looking for the right opportunity that I can sign up cold leads to that I would feel more comfortable approaching my "warm" leads. I strongly feel that if I was in the right situation or program I could be successful (financially) so that I can afford to spend more time with my family and hopefully move closer to relatives.
Look forward to hearing from you again on this string of postings.
78bosoxr1
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malibumentor
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 351
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#56 · Posted: 7 Jan 2007 13:38
Perhaps the source of the confusion regarding warm-market prospecting is that often people doing the recruiting assume that everybody should be as interested in the paychecks AND the line of work that network marketing is.
Never, if you are smart , try to get somebody you care about into the business because you want it more for them than they want it for themselves.
It just occurred to me that if I were looking to start an MLM organization I might look at a few companies, compile information and the go out and survey my warm market and find out WHAT it is THEY were interested in and choose the MLM that served my CIRCLE of FRIENDS most.
Radical idea... I know. Ask your potential customers and partners what they want (extra money coming in, improved health, time freedom, etc.) and seek out a company that can help them get it.
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promagi
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#57 · Posted: 8 Jan 2007 09:25 · Edited by: promagi
Quoting: 78bosoxr1 To Promagi-
I have been researching Agel business opportunity the past few months and would like to know how you have found working for the company, your personal success/setbacks while trying to establish your downline.
What kind of expenses have you had to pay out and what type of income are you starting to see after what period of time.
I have had a few struggles (Rexall/Amway) in the past and am still looking for the right opportunity that I can sign up cold leads to that I would feel more comfortable approaching my "warm" leads. I strongly feel that if I was in the right situation or program I could be successful (financially) so that I can afford to spend more time with my family and hopefully move closer to relatives.
Look forward to hearing from you again on this string of postings.
78bosoxr1
Hi there 78,
First off, Congratulations for considering network marketing and Agel in particular for your vehicle to create an income stream that will serve you for life!
I will take your questions one at a time.
Please realize that I have had previous MLM experience before I was approached by Randy Gage and made the decision to join Agel. Therefore I knew many of the pitfalls of this industry and I was able to avoid them entirely when I started with this company. Having Randy Gage as a mentor doesn't hurt either as he gave me his insights as well as to exactly what to do and what not to do in order to be successful and I can tell you know that it is working incredibly well. More so than most people would imagine.
I started in Agel in January of 2006 with exactly 0 people in my downline. The downline of about 100 people I had with my previous company I left with my former upline. I did not want to try and roll them over into Agel. I felt that if they were happy, let them be. If any were curious as to what I was doing, they would seek me out and learn about Agel. Only 1 did and he joined.
It took almost a decade to amass a group of about a hundred in my previous program. That was/is very common in that company. It's was a stair-step breakaway program (exactly like Amway). When you develop a leader, they break-a-way and you lose the volume of them and their group (minimum $2,000). As a result, you are scrambling around trying to make up the retail volume so you don't lose your position in the company. This is time that "could" have been spent finding and developing leaders. It happens so frequently that people rarely build large organizations and thats a fact. My upline knew more about the products than many people in corporate! TRUE! She was sharp and a go-getter but in 17 years never made the top ranks. Because the company was far to "retail" oriented. And this is Network Marketing...not direct sales and that is a huge distinction.
My first question to Randy Gage was... "Do you ever lose volume?" When he came back with.... "No, in Agel you never lose it, there are no break-a-ways" I was already 90% sold. And it was the best decision I ever made. In the last year my group has grown internationally and is several times larger than my previous group with the last company. And unlike my last company, in Agel the attrition rate (people dropping out) has only been 2 people. One because the woman was already working 5 programs and the other because I made the mistake of sponsoring someone whos only qualification was that he could fog a mirror (something I normally try not to do).
So I have seen incredible success. Setbacks? Only two.. if you can call them setbacks... 1. It's a two legged structure and my international leg has grown so fast that my other leg has a hard time keeping up (but most people should have this problem) 2. I feel the company may have opened up too many countries in the first year (over 40). The reason that this has been a slight problem is that it's hard to support that many areas without the proper manpower and field support. But we are working our way through it.
One of the best things about Agel is the low expense to do the business. Other than your initial order which is either $250.00 or $1,000.00 depending on how aggressively you want to tackle this, your only other expenses are 1. your autoship.. which is only one box a month to start (30 supply = 1 bottle of vitamins) and 2 boxes when you reach manager. You will never have a larger qualification than that. When some companies require anwhere from $250.00 to $500.00 a month in product usage/sales. Agel is quite reasonable in this area.
So a box is $60.00. Your only other expenses besides that are going to be your "Choosing Success Magazines" The main marketing tool we use which includes a free prospecting CD. These magazines with CD are only $2.00 each! When most companies charge $5.00 for just the CD alone! Again, Agel shines in this area.
2. Some people want a custom website that runs about $20.00 per month. But my particular team has a FREE website that all team members can use to send people to. At: http://www.gettheinfonow.com So you dont have to buy a website if you don't want to.
Now income is a pretty touchy question for most people (including myself) so I will let you do the calculations. This month, my team will produce just shy of $50,000.00 in volume. My team volume commission is 10%. That does not include my leveraged matching bonus (25% at my rank) that is paid on all my personal sponsorees. This bonus generally matches your team volume commission. It also does not take into account any "Fast Start" bonuses and retail profits. Remember, this is after one year.
If you were in Amway/Rexall in the past I can assure you that this is an entirely different animal in so many ways. Your results will be different I can assure you. Especially if you join the right team.
I came into this because I wanted to create transerrable wealth for my children but also to spend more time with them.
If you were in our team, my #1 goal would be to position you so that we could make that happen for you as well..and within reasonable period of time. We can do it, I have no doubt about that. And if we were sitting having coffee, I could look you straight in the eye and tell you this is realistic.
These are products you can really get behind and the compensation plan makes it possible to atttain your goals without crazy qualifications and restrictions.
Let me know if I can be of further help. I can be contacted through the link.
Wishing you the best of success,
Bob g.
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nevilk
Forums Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 1
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#58 · Posted: 19 Jan 2007 17:42
Wow- just take a look at how thisn post has developed. From civil comments and good advice to a lot of criticism. I know both Agel and Herbalife. I know very successful distributors go from Herbalife to Agel and also people who quit Agel. The point is that any MLM that is ethical and worthy of being successful will have it's doubters. We all know that success is dependant on the individual taking full responsibility for their own actions. Some people meet challenges, blame others, quit, and then complain to the world that the company is a scam. I chose to develope myself using the likes of Jim Rohn and Bob Proctor etc. I have had my challenges and down periods with Herbalife and I can NEVER say it was anything to do with my sponsor, the 60 Minute Money system, or Herbalife. I am just grateful for the oportunity to grow so much in such a short time. I know I will succeed. To help people understand what to ask when looking into an MLM business there is an info article I have put up HERE [Link removed - Admin].
Please tell me what you think of it and if there is any extra areas you would like more detail on.
The NEW MLMers are doing away with the old style pyramids and forced selling that gave the industry such a black eye. So let's look to the positive and when there is a challenge put it out to all of us to help with.
"If you need to find all the answers...you only have to find a mirror"
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ragamuffin
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Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 1
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#59 · Posted: 20 Jan 2007 04:08
I have been asked by a friend to join agel..i watched the dvd by phil anderson..it was very impressive..but then I started having my doubts on how by spending $425 and then another $210 monthly and by signing up just 2 people in the first 30 daysand then if they all do the same in 12 months time i will be earning $30,000 a month it seems to good to be true, so i think I will stay clear unless someone can tell me differently
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nofreeride
Forums Member
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 31
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#60 · Posted: 21 Jan 2007 00:28
Does anyone know anything about Manatech?
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