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AppealMarketing
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Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 181
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#201 · Posted: 27 Oct 2010 20:42
Hi Penny,
There was nothing mentioned about v1.0 being Paypal Approved, period. John used Paypal because at the time, there were many sites very similar to 2020 that used them without problem. Paypal all of a sudden started shutting down MANY programs that used their payment processing services, not just 2020. Paypal is not a bank and is not under the same rules as banks and can pretty much do whatever they feel like doing at the time. They say MLM is against their Acceptable Use Policy, yet they are the payment processor for GDI, a BIG MLM Company????
NO ONE lost the money in their Paypal accounts, like you seem to be referring to, but Paypal can hold the funds for up to 180 days, that's their rule and a terrible rule at that! Here's where I would welcome a little Government intervention.
My opinion of what John should do with v1.0 members is to NOT give out a free membership, as I have done that a few times at my FullBux site, but because it was "free" not a single one of those members ever made a sale and I didn't even see them advertising. I believe if you want in at 2020Unlimited, you ought to pay just like everyone else, then it is worth something to those members and maybe, just maybe, they might promote it. But that is MY OPINION only and not John's, please understand that. I said I would post something when I heard something from John, he's the Owner. 
Got to run, have a good day or night all.
Regards,
Marv
Regards,
Marv
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freebird658
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Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 132
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#202 · Posted: 28 Oct 2010 04:08
Marv,
Sorry but it sure did say "Paypal Approved" right on that website! Now your saying he never even checked into it at all and only used Paypal because other similar sites was using it when Paypal was shutting down sites and freezing accounts left and right up to that time! Shame on him for NOT reading Paypals TOS BEFORE he put that on his site and causing so much trouble for so many people!
GDI offers web Hosting and is the product affiliates "sell", that is the difference and why it is allowed. Selling real products as an affiliate is not against Paypals TOS. Selling an opportunity to sell an opportunity is against it.
Penny
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freebird658
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Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 132
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#203 · Posted: 28 Oct 2010 09:45
NO ONE lost the money in their Paypal accounts, like you seem to be referring to, but Paypal can hold the funds for up to 180 days, that's their rule and a terrible rule at that! Here's where I would welcome a little Government intervention.
Even though people may or may not have gotten their money back in 180 days (6 months), many of us had money in there for other businesses among other things as well and used for monthly fees etc. Because of losing access to our money for 6 months, many lost a LOT more than JUST what they had earned with 2020U. I was earning a pretty good residual income and lost a top position because the account got shut down and the monthly fee could not get paid! So John STILL eventually got his thousands, but at the expense of those who lost access to much more than just cash from all this.
Regards,
Penny
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TJamMoneyMan
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Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 1222
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#204 · Posted: 29 Oct 2010 05:19 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
AppealMarketing: My opinion of what John should do with v1.0 members is to NOT give out a free membership
I can respect that opinion, though I don't completely agree with it
Regardless of whether or not v1.0 members should get a 'free' position though, 20/20U owner 'John' should do SOMETHING!
SOMETHING!
There are so many ways just off of the top of my head - free advertising credit, and enhanced rotator position, a reduced membership fee.
An explanation and apology by email.
"Hello how are you doing"!
SOMETHING!!
'John' did NOTHING.
That is just unacceptable.
It happens many times with online 'programs'.
Then again, so do outright scams!
UNACCEPTABLE!
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TJamMoneyMan
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Posts: 1222
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#205 · Posted: 29 Oct 2010 05:39 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
AppealMarketing: There was nothing mentioned about v1.0 being Paypal Approved, period.
freebird658: Sorry but it sure did say "Paypal Approved" right on that website!
This is why forums are so valuable.
Webmasters can easily change their website promises anytime they want to.
But answering questions IN PUBLIC, in WRITING, gives them no way to back out later!
Nowadays, many marketers start threads about their 'unique opportunity' and then refuse to answer any questions in that same thread about their 'unique opportunity', requiring that you come to hour long telephone/webinars and watch long boring videos instead of just answering questions, in PUBLIC, where all can verify what was said or not, promised or not.
'LEAD CAPTURE THREADS' is what I call them!
AppealMarketing: They say MLM is against their Acceptable Use Policy, yet they are the payment processor for GDI, a BIG MLM Company????
I too remember Paypal having that condition in their TOS.
However, as a result of these postings, I have searched through Paypal's various TOS's and can find NOTHING that says MLM's are not acceptable.
AppealMarketing: because it was "free" not a single one of those members ever made a sale and I didn't even see them advertising.
That those members 'never made a sale', may be true but, the reasoning that "because it was free" is another matter.
How do you know that "because it was free" is the reason these members never made a sale?
'freebird658: Shame on him for NOT reading Paypals TOS BEFORE he put that on his site
John is completely deserving of shame, but more shame should go to Paypal.
They could have given a warning, stopped payments, TEMPORARILY shut down the site, or member's access in certain ways.
Reviewed the website BEFORE 'approving' it!!!
Shutdown ONLY John's account - which would have stopped the entire financial transaction due to no admin fees not being collected, and punishing ONLY the person responsible for using Paypal as the processor in the first place!
But a permanent shutdown of EVERYONE'S Paypal account was uncalled for.
THAT is ALL on Paypal!
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freebird658
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Posts: 132
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#206 · Posted: 29 Oct 2010 10:23 · Edited by: freebird658
AppealMarketing:
My opinion of what John should do with v1.0 members is to NOT give out a free membership, as I have done that a few times at my FullBux site, but because it was "free" not a single one of those members ever made a sale and I didn't even see them advertising. I believe if you want in at 2020Unlimited, you ought to pay just like everyone else, then it is worth something to those members and maybe, just maybe, they might promote it.
That may be true in "free" to join programs most of the time, but EVERYONE paid $49.95 to join 2020U 1.0, there were no free members. Just because some didn't have a chance to make any sales before Paypal stepped in doesn't mean they didn't try.
I'm also told by a well know program owner that in order for an online program to be legal they have to offer a free to join option and they can choose to upgrade after they join. I have read that somewhere too but I can't remember where at the moment, but if I come across it I'll post it.
I had made several sales in which a few did not have a chance to make a dime, and because I was the one who promoted this to them and they trusted ME..so that I could keep that trust and their friendship I offered to return the money I received from them. And I did so for those who wanted it once I got a new PP account and funded it..weeks later. However my sponsor didn't make that offer, so they still lost, and I felt horrible for sucking them into this.
TJamMoneyMan:
Nowadays, many marketers start threads about their 'unique opportunity' and then refuse to answer any questions in that same thread about their 'unique opportunity', requiring that you come to hour long telephone/webinars and watch long boring videos instead of just answering questions, in PUBLIC, where all can verify what was said or not, promised or not.
'LEAD CAPTURE THREADS' is what I call them!
I think that is because they JUST joined that "unique" opportunity and don't have a clue what it is all about. They are told all they have to do is send people to these webinars etc and they'll make sales! They still should investigate and educate themselves about their program and be able to answer questions.
Penny
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TJamMoneyMan
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Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 1222
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#207 · Posted: 22 Nov 2010 17:11
freebird658: TJamMoneyMan: Nowadays, many marketers start threads about their 'unique opportunity' and then refuse to answer any questions in that same thread about their 'unique opportunity', requiring that you come to hour long telephone/webinars and watch long boring videos instead of just answering questions, in PUBLIC, where all can verify what was said or not, promised or not. 'LEAD CAPTURE THREADS' is what I call them! I think that is because they JUST joined that "unique" opportunity and don't have a clue what it is all about. They are told all they have to do is send people to these webinars etc and they'll make sales! They still should investigate and educate themselves about their program and be able to answer questions.
Well, I'd like to point out that I am talking about people who definitely know about what they are promoting, and can answer questions about it, but refuse to do so, especially in a free and open forum.
Trifecta and NarcThatCar/CrowdSourceInternational promoters were the first I noticed to use this 'LEAD GENERATOR THREAD' technique.
They won't answer ANY questions about what they themselves are promoting (and created, in the case of TRIFECTA).
Instead they direct all interested people to watch their videos and attend webinars.
I have done so, in an attempt to find out what was so 'top secret', only to find I had wasted MUCH of my valuable time as NO useful information was presented, at least not until you were ready to make payment I guess, as I never took it that far.
It usually leaves me with considerable ire - wasting my time like that, and so I often make an added effort to point out to anyone in the thread, how they are dealing so underhandedly.
These are MLM-pyramids, I have found to be the case.
Companies with reputations so bad, they can't risk people knowing who they really are, until they have been completely taken in by the advertising propaganda!
Just 2 clarify...
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AppealMarketing
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Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 181
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#208 · Posted: 26 Nov 2010 17:43
Hello All,
I see my last post was removed, sorry, will have to be more careful.
John, the owner of 2020Unlimited will add +15 rotations to any v1.0 member that wants to join v2.0. Just send him a support ticket from your back office that you were a v1.0 member, he will verify and add your 15 rotations.
So now you have an answer on that question.
For whatever reason I had not been receiving any emails showing new posts added to this thread, no reason why, as I'm subscribed. guess I'll have to poke my head in here once or twice a week.
2020Unlimited is still going great!
Have 18 personal referrals and those 18 have made 63 sales!
My main method of advertising for all programs is via Text Ad Exchange (TAE) Super/Network type solos. You can send to 6,000 - 37,000+ contact email addresses with a single ad post. Yes, these do cost money and are not free. I look for sales on them and then stock up with what I can comfortably afford.
But if someone has zero advertising budget, they can still join a bunch of TAE's for free and 99% of them will give you a nice free ad package for joining them and some even include lifetime membership upgrades too. It takes more work, but it is free and free actually costs time, but virtually anyone can use these to make money online. Just remember, whether using free or paid advertising, it TAKES TIME! Do NOT expect instant success, unless you have a warm list of people you can send to, but success will come to those that stick with a program they love! Unfortunately most people will NOT do this, they send a few ads, see no results and assume that the program is no good and jump onto the next greatest thing since sliced bread. This is program jumping and a sure way to lose more money than you will ever make online.
Just wanted to leave you with one more bit of advice, this applies to ALL advertising ads that you post:
Also, you will need to put your email address AND phone number in your ads! I just got a call from a fellow this evening that has seen hundreds of 2020 ads, but he said mine was the first one with a phone number in it. He will not join any program unless he can talk to a real person, a lot of people are just like him. But you need to know everything you can about 2020 (or whatever program you are promoting), by going over the site many times so that you understand it completely, and if you don't know something, tell them that and that you will call them back with the answer, do not try to guess on an answer. For 2020, just call me and I can help you with any questions a new prospect may come up with, as you will have my cell phone number.
That's how important I feel that you need to have your contact info on ALL your ads that can have it in them. Good Luck.
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freebird658
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Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 132
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#209 · Posted: 26 Nov 2010 22:35
Hi Marv,
AppealMarketing: For whatever reason I had not been receiving any emails showing new posts added to this thread, no reason why, as I'm subscribed. guess I'll have to poke my head in here once or twice a week.
Just a suggestion, but it could be your email provider blocking the notifications. Maybe you just need to whitelist the forums email address.
AppealMarketing: Unfortunately most people will NOT do this, they send a few ads, see no results and assume that the program is no good and jump onto the next greatest thing since sliced bread. This is program jumping and a sure way to lose more money than you will ever make online.
This is so true. But also remember poor results more times than not is due to the ads themselves. Always test and tweak your ads till you write one that gets results and stick with it. It just
takes practice.
AppealMarketing: Also, you will need to put your email address AND phone number in your ads!
This is where I have to disagree to a point Marv. Unless you want an inbox full of porn ads and other spam or phone calls all hours from someones autodialer trying to solicit you for THEIR business, I wouldn't recommend using your main phone number or main email address. I agree you should leave a way where someone can contact you but it would be better to use an voicemail service where someone interested can leave a number where you can return the call. Or use an email you don't mind sifting through all the spam to get to the legit inquiries. Unfortunately not everyone online has honest and honorable intentions.
Regards,
Penny
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AppealMarketing
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Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 181
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#210 · Posted: 26 Nov 2010 23:13 · Edited by: AppealMarketing
Hello Penny,
I'm glad to see we agree on most marketing ideas! 
I always put my real cell phone number and my main email in all my ads (if allowed). I have received an occasional "Do you want to make 1 Million dollars?" call, I just hang up. But when I do get someone calling me, more often than not, they will be joining me in whatever opportunity they've seen. I've learned to quickly screen my main email so any spam gets deleted before I even have to look at it. I only get 400-500 emails there, but my main contact email for ad exchanges gets thousands a day, and yes, I still go through them looking for that one or two that I can use. lol
Hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving Day.
Hey, I actually got an email showing the thread being updated!
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TJamMoneyMan
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Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 1222
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#211 · Posted: 2 Dec 2010 21:26 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
AppealMarketing: ...will not join any program unless he can talk to a real person, a lot of people are just like him.
I too was once happy to see phone numbers and contact info but I'd like to reference: 'What can one man do?'
In most every case, I have found personal replies from promoters to be quite less than satisfactory.
This, not necessarily that the promoter is lacking in any 'caring' way but, being a human being, with the same 24 hour day limitation that we all have, there is only so much support one man can give.
Then too, some promoters just don't have the necessary skills to effectively deal with people, especially people having problems with their 'perfect' system.
Also, promoters are often swamped trying to make a go of things business-wise.
A thoroughly busy promoter - often with a full time job, to say nothing of personal and family issues, simply does not have the time to personally address concerns of EACH member of his downline adequately.
And what of those who have hundreds or thousands on their list?
What hope would he have of communicating effectively with that many people?
Especially with those having problems!
This regardless of the 'magic' of voicemail, or IM services (skype, AIM, etc.)
There is only so much time available after all, and even less for a busy man WITH a huge downline.
Other people to assist just doesn't cut it either - they have the same concerns to be met.
And waiting around, often for days, for a reply that often is insufficient, doesn't cut it either.
To say nothing of differing TIME ZONES!
You really don't have decent support on anything unless there is a 24/7 live/chat system in place.
This is what any decent domain hosting service does, for example.
A full functioning professional, responsive support desk is another useful support feature.
There is also the fact that, like people in general, most promoters are not skilled, certified teachers and problem resolvers.
They often lack professional counseling skills, as we all normally do, in dealing with folx that may be having some problems that may seem trivial, or a reflection of a person's ignorance and inexperience.
I've been there - Skype, AIM, phone calls.
Promoters that simply stop returning emails, phone calls, IM's and the like.
IM/Chat room moderators that are often too quick to eject members.
Promoters that will blame YOU in a hot second, when their 'perfect system' doesn't work so well in a particular instance.
I don't profess to have a total solution, especially since 24/7 chat/live help is not always a practical expense.
But I'd like to point out that simply having a promoter's contact info should not be overvalued either.
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AppealMarketing
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Posts: 181
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#212 · Posted: 2 Dec 2010 23:30 · Edited by: AppealMarketing
Hi Tjaml,
Man, that's alot of writing you did to try and discredit the importance of listing valid contact information. Why are you always so negative Tjam? Would you rather join a program where people don't even list their name, let alone contact info in their ads?
I would never join a program unless I have at the very least a name, that's because I don't need their help, but not putting their name in their ad is WRONG! And I won't deal with someone like that. And for people that have questions before joining, having valid contact info is a must.
An inexperienced marketer should ONLY join a program after calling or emailing (if that's the only info available) the person in the ad, as that's whom they will be working with. If they get ZERO response, they automatically know that they had picked someone that they should NOT work with. If the person sounds knowledgeable and can answer all their questions, they will have a better chance of succeeding. As long as the sponsor will continue to answer their requests once the new member has joined.
As far as time, yes, there's only so much available, but it's rare that I get 2 people needing help/questions answered at the same time. If someone needs 10 minutes I give it to them, if they need 1 hour I give it to them. BUT, it is up to them to ask for my advice. I don't read minds, and I don't know anyone else that does, so it is up to the inexperienced marketer to ASK for HELP when they need it. Hopefully they did their DD and found someone who knows what they are doing and will offer them the help they need.
Since this is a 2020Unlimited forum thread, I had better leave a little 2020 info, don't you think?
I have 19 personally sponsored members and my group of 19 members have sponsored 67 members. Things have slowed down a bit since Thanksgiving and who knows, may remain slow thru Christmas, or it can pick back up until Christmas. But one thing I know is, it will pick back up when 2011 rolls around! This applies to all online businesses, so if you are in another program, do not worry if you have it slower until the new year rolls around, things will pick back up!
Have a good day/night!
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TJamMoneyMan
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Posts: 1222
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#213 · Posted: 6 Dec 2010 01:06 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
AppealMarketing: Why are you always so negative Tjam?
I am not here trying to sell Dan.
But I am trying to post my actual experiences, regardless of how that may affect sales.
I think its a value to be brutally honest, especially since I've found no promoter/seller who will point out ANY real downsides to what they are selling.
This is the value, imho, of an open forum.
Many a promoter will promise the world, and make all kinds of statements - in a private setting.
They will even change what was stated in their own blogs and websites.
What is said in public, is the only thing that counts.
I sincerely think honesty, complete honesty, is a highly valuable service, especially to newbies and others who may be less than completely informed.
AppealMarketing: As far as time, yes, there's only so much available, but it's rare that I get 2 people needing help/questions answered at the same time. If someone needs 10 minutes I give it to them, if they need 1 hour I give it to them.
Sorry Dan, but I just did not find this to be the case.
If you look through this thread, as a complete newbie I was impressed that you did include your contact info.
But, you were actually the first to show me that the value of this contact info can be quite limited, at best.
Perhaps my requests were too demanding, but I am sure you will remember your eventually not replying to my emails (!!!).
I have really not had problems dealing with professional support personnel and systems.
Individual promoters on the other hand, often don't realize or just won't recognize their own shortcomings and limitations in this matter.
Again, not because they are necessarily bad people or running some kind of scam.
Not everyone can work the 'customer service desk', even the CEO (ESPECIALLY the CEO!).
Simple as that!
Perhaps you and John 2020u. are doing things differently today but I am just talking from experience.
It's not just you Dan.
This is a common issue.
And in the specific case of 2020U, your contact info was virtually useless.
No one could contact the 2020U website owner!!
Even now, some 3 years later, there's still no way to reach Mr 2020u!
Yes, at the 'new' 2020u, you have to hope he will contact you after you submit an inquiry.
Maybe it's all changed at 2020u and all, but I've been down that road, and I am not being 'negative' by telling what my experience was.
I am simply posting my experiences as you are posting yours.
The only difference being that I am not promoting 2020u, so I have no interest in putting a 'spin' on the facts.
Today, I don't care what kind of contact info a promoter supplies, the issue is what kind of professional support system comes with whatever you decide to put your money into.
I sincerely think that's something for people to consider.
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pplrulz
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Posts: 58
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#214 · Posted: 12 Apr 2011 08:59 · Edited by: pplrulz
Hello,
i was told about 20/20 unlimited 2 weeks ago, and me and team haven't had nothing but success with it. I was actually surprised, but so far no problems. I've been averaging 2 to 3 signups per day using article marketing, backpage, craigslist, and blogs.
Hope this helps.
Rob
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pattersonjustin
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Joined: 26 Jun 2011
Posts: 2
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#215 · Posted: 26 Jun 2011 04:08
im thinking hard about 2020 but after reading this thread from page 1-11 I think the most important thing for success is having a good team. Idk if you still visit this forum marv but if you do please contact me as soon as possible, im extremely interested in joining under you.
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vgs352000
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Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 1
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#216 · Posted: 14 Apr 2012 18:52
AppealMarketing
hi, I been reading your post about the20/20 unlimited program. It's now 2012 and I have not seen any more post from you. are you still in it? How is it going? Has there many changes with the program?
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