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AppealMarketing
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#181 · Posted: 22 Oct 2010 02:27
Hello,
Just posting today's results:
My Personal Sales: 8 x $20 = $160
My Group's Sales: 22 x $20 = $440
Total = $600
One group member at $360 and 3 others profitable so far.
Not too shabby for the very 1st week.
Just setup a Group URL Rotator tonight, will be using that for the link of all my new advertising.
I'll be at the Hospital all afternoon for a CT Scan, so I won't get too much done tomorrow.
I hope you have a GREAT TGIF!
Regards,
Marv
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TJamMoneyMan
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#182 · Posted: 22 Oct 2010 06:00 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
AppealMarketing: Hey TJAM! Been a while, hope you have found out the internet marketing secret. Which is a consistent effort on a daily basis, no big secret at all.
Hey yerself Dan!
How u been?
No secrets to discover here.
Consistent hard work has always been my game plan, on or offline.
But for ONCE, I'd like to hear more about VALUE than just a numbers game to get folx to signup!
Marketers frequently will post numbers regarding sales and 'earnings' but, that is really irrelevant at best, and worse yet, misleading to say the least.
Enticing people with numbers is a common trick online and should be avoided, at least here in the forum.
Continuous statements about money 'earned' is simply not the whole story.
WHAT you have to do, the amount of time involved, and the money actually SPENT, gets closer to relevant information that can be used to properly assess a plan of action.
Let's have a meaningful discussion about FACTS and VALUE, here at this forum.
Otherwise, this just becomes another advertisement/lead capture tool.
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freebird658
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#183 · Posted: 22 Oct 2010 09:44
Continuous statements about money 'earned' is simply not the whole story.
WHAT you have to do, the amount of time involved, and the money actually SPENT, gets closer to relevant information that can be used to properly assess a plan of action.
Hi there TJAM!
I agree totally. Many newbies do not have the resources available or the experience, to just jump in a program like this and get these kind of results IF they see any results at all, which most will not. There are just way to many factors involved and it's our responsibility as seasoned marketers to help make them aware by stating all the facts involved so they can make an informed decision.
Penny
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TJamMoneyMan
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#184 · Posted: 22 Oct 2010 16:54
freebird658: Hi there TJAM! I agree totally. Many newbies do not have the resources available or the experience, to just jump in a program like this and get these kind of results IF they see any results at all, which most will not.
Thank you!
I am not here to just 'bash' people's offers.
What you describe here is my eggzack same response.
You can see my posts as a complete newbie, right here in this thread, that I was completely taken in by such statements of 'earnings', only to discover the REALITY of money 'earned' - coming at considerable expense of both time AND money.
For example, if it takes you $100 and several hours each day, for a week, to earn $120, then how much have you REALLY come out ahead?
Not only has it cost you $100, or whatever $$ amount, there is also the value of your TIME!
If you don't take that into consideration, either you are intentionally misleading, and/or you will be mislead by the claims of many a marketer, trying to make a buck from your signup.
Sorry, but that's just the facts of the matter.
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AppealMarketing
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#185 · Posted: 22 Oct 2010 17:58
Hello TJAM and Penny,
Sounds like you want to know what I did to earn my commissions and how much I spent on advertising, correct? OK, I have no problem at all with that, as you both know I like to help others and maybe someone will pickup a thing or two.
After joining I sent an email to 15 people that I knew, 4 people joined that first night, and 1 other joined the next day from that mailing. I sent out a couple of Super Solo type email ads, at a cost of $5.00, as I will only purchase these ads on sale and usually in bulk for the lowest cost per solo. We had the software glitch and I didn't send out anything until it was fixed on Monday.
Monday I sent out a few more Super Type Solos, this time at a cost of $0, as I own 9 Text Ad Exchanges and have Supers on each of them, I can send one Super type Solo out a week from the different groups. So, yes, I have that advantage, but have worked hard on building those sites up and I had to pay to add Super Solos to each site, so the cost is not really $0, but close to it, as I do make money selling these ads too.
Then I sent out 2 New Supers to 55,000 people each, the first one with my link, then I setup an URL Rotator for my personals and myself and used that link for the 2nd one, these 2 ads cost me $13 total. And also setup some banner ads, traffic links, hot links and regular site solos at ZERO COST, as I got these for free for joining the sites, as most TAE's give you free advertising to join their sites.
During the week I also submitted 2 Free Ad Planet contact solos, I traded points for these solos, but upgraded to a Pro Membership for 30 days to earn points at a doubled rate and to also transfer credits from their sister site Planet X Mail solos I receive, I belong to 14 of these PXM safelists, you earn 25 points for clicking a PXM solo ad, but if you are a member of 14 of them with the SAME contact email, that single click really earned you 25 points x 14 safelists = 350 points, 1/10 of the 3500 points required to redeem for these $59 contact solos. I always wait until I have enough for at least 10 solos, so my cost per solo is $2.00 each or less. OK folks, this is my Secret Weapon and I just gave it to you for free! As these solos have earned me thousands in commissions. I have even created an eBook with step by step instructions for earning points for these solos in the quickest time and lowest cost possible, as I learned this over a year's time. I give it to my FullBux members.
As far as time, I didn't spend alot of time on submitting ads, as the Supers go out to multiple sites and to thousands of members. So figure a real time guesstimate of approx. 3 or 4 hours total, doesn't take long to submit some ads.
So just doing all that brought me in 8 personally sponsored members and my personally sponsored members have sponsored 23 members. That's all I can see in my back office, so I do not know any other results.
In v1.0 it took a few weeks for my members to catch up to my own number, now we see that reversed in v2.0, which I consider a good thing! 
I have always tried to give my members help, it is too bad most of them never ask. I do send out a couple of emails a week to my personals with news, email ads I create, updates and sometimes even marketing advice when I'm not too tired. 
Well I guess I have rambled on long enough, I hope this helps some people following this thread.
Regards,
Marv
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freebird658
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#186 · Posted: 22 Oct 2010 20:47
Thanks Marv,
Because you own several Text ad exchanges and you have a system that you developed from experience gives you a huge advantage over the new or even average marketer who might read your posts and think..WOW this guy is making all this money fast and it would give them the impression that it's easy to do when we all know that it takes alot of work to acheive those kind of results. Not everyone has the resources you or I have, or knows how to utilize the ones they do have.
It took us a lot of time to learn what strategies work and build the effective resources we have and how to properly use them and this is something we need to keep in mind when we are promoting a opportunity.
I think most people are sick and tired of seeing all the hype about all the money someone else is making with a particular program. They want to know how THEY can make that kind of money and not get burned again and again.
It's great you offer to help your referrals through ad coops and other means and you should emphasize that a little more in a way that will let them know that you will help them achieve results but they also have to put in the effort themselves to see the kind of results you do.
It's great that you are doing so well with this, I just hope others can do the same, maybe if John would have offered something of better value than a bunch of e-books, it would attract more interest.
Penny
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TJamMoneyMan
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#187 · Posted: 22 Oct 2010 21:08 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
freebird658: I think most people are sick and tired of seeing all the hype about all the money someone else is making with a particular program. They want to know how THEY can make that kind of money and not get burned again and again.
That's true!
Marketers make all kinds of earnings claims and promises.
No one knows how much money a marketer REALLY makes, and the time and financial resources necessary to do so.
It's not how much money a marketer or his team makes.
The real issue is whether or not they can help YOU make money.
And,
whether or not the money earned, is worth the time and financial investment required.
That's a value judgment the newbie, or 'old head' marketer has to make.
Personally, THOSE kind of value judgments are what I like to see folx posting.
Not just statements about 'earnings'.
good luck 2u Marv...
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AppealMarketing
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#188 · Posted: 22 Oct 2010 22:13
freebird658: Because you own several Text ad exchanges and you have a system that you developed from experience gives you a huge advantage over the new or even average marketer who might read your posts and think..WOW this guy is making all this money fast and it would give them the impression that it's easy to do when we all know that it takes alot of work to acheive those kind of results. Not everyone has the resources you or I have, or knows how to utilize the ones they do have.
Just wanted to remind you that I was a Newbie in online marketing for 2020Unlimited v1.0.
I started my online marketing "career" on Aug. 1st 2007, I joined 2020Unlimited in late Sept. 2007, I didn't experience instant success, go read the beginning of the forum if you want. But I believed so much in this program, because I could help my personal members, that I did not let that stop me. Most people would have quit before I found success and said it was just another "bad" program that no one could make money in. How wrong "they" were! Once I put together an ad co-op (never heard of one before I started mine) and split the cost of advertising with my personal members, that's when it took off like a rocket ship, literally! The rest is history, as they say.
I did not own any advertising sites, but I stuck with it until I found out how to make it work. Yes, it was hard work, as I'm not the most organized person (look at my desk!) and I had to track all the co-op ads, place them, get a copy of the ad to the member when it went out, etc... I helped alot of people make their first money online and become profitable, I also helped myself at the same time, so it was a win-win situation.
I really need to get back to some website modifications that I was working on, have a nice weekend to all.
Regards,
Marv
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lionshare
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#189 · Posted: 22 Oct 2010 23:18
Hi all,
I guess you'd say I go back a ways.. before Income4Dummies (which was before they changed it to Income4Beginners), before SuperEden, and so on.
I joined 20/20 Unlimited v.2.0 Oct 14, right at 8 days ago, under Marv.
(He and I met back with SuperEden)
When you subtract about 2 days of downtime that Marv already spoke plainly about.. I have 9 Direct Sales and 12 Indirect Sales.
Total of 21 Sales = $420.00
I use safelist memberships (pro or better only.. you have to be
pro to reach pro's) and various contact solo ad services. Several
of the "names" that many would recognize are in my genealogy.
I don't have to name them, chances are you've seen their ads
for 20/20 Unlimited this week!
Because of the down time as well as choosing to set up an auto responder capture page, I have had numerous interactions with
John in the past week. I'm happy to report that I had nothing but prompt and helpful attention at every turn.
There's my two cents...
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TJamMoneyMan
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#190 · Posted: 24 Oct 2010 02:02
freebird658: It's great you offer to help your referrals through ad coops and other means and you should emphasize that a little more in a way that will let them know that you will help them achieve results but they also have to put in the effort themselves to see the kind of results you do.
Yeah, my main point was, maybe the sales were there, but did it justify the work involved?
THAT is an issue I haven't seen resolved adequately with this plan, and many others.
At least following the marketing plans Marv was offering when I chose to get into 20/20unlimited.
"Success" has to be defined for the person themselves.
For me, the payout has to be worth the work-in!
freebird658: Hey, I understand totally how difficult it is to work a full-time job and run an internet business too, but that is NO excuse for not keeping your members in the loop or answering their emails. To many folks, that makes John appear to be a very shady character and just shows that he only cares about those who can make HIM the most money and he could care less about anyone else.
Just to illustrate:
If the OWNER of 20/20U still has to work a full-time job, well just how much money can one expect to make from 20/20U as a common member?
Especially considering the payoff for your time and money investment!
Of course, he may have extenuating circumstances for doing so, but... don't we all?
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AppealMarketing
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#191 · Posted: 24 Oct 2010 06:09
Hi TJAM,
If you read my post above I outlined the "work" involved (not that much), and my costs (also not very much), so why keep harping on it?
The return is definitely justified by the means.
BTW, how is the music biz these days? Did you ever get a recording? Still doing gigs?
Heading out to the State Fair in a few minutes, only reason I'm up at this time. lol
Have a wonderful Sunday all.
Regards,
Marv
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AppealMarketing
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#192 · Posted: 26 Oct 2010 00:09
Hello All,
Just a quick update before hitting the sack.
I'm still at 8 personal referrals, but my group is up to 30!!!
Over the weekend I started a group URL Rotator and plugged all 8 of my personal referrals in and have been advertising that link. As we don't know where the sales are coming from I may have helped some of my group to get some sales or not, but the group is growing, that's what really matters.
I've never been the kind of marketer to keep track of all sorts of stats and such, I'm more of a mud slinger, I throw enough mud and some of it sticks!
So if you take 38 total sales (personal + group) x $20 = $760 - Alertpay fees - advertising costs - a dollar figure for your time = net profit.
As stated above, your results may be better or worse than my results, every 2020Unlimited members results will be different. Basically depends on how much time you have to place either free and/or paid ads, quality of your subject lines (very important), your ad itself and whether the person clicking on your ad is ready to join at that particular moment.
Have a good day/night all.
Regards,
Marv
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mikecole62
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#193 · Posted: 26 Oct 2010 14:30
I am new with the forum could you fill me in on what your talking about?
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AppealMarketing
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#194 · Posted: 26 Oct 2010 16:32 · Edited by: AppealMarketing
Hi Mike,
Here's the short story, if you want to complete story start at page 1 and read to page 10. lol
2020Unlimited v1.0 started in Sept of 2007, I joined because it was a people helping people program, the owner used Paypal as the payment processor. I was a newbie and didn't know anything about how paypal messes with small online businesses. But after I figured out the program and had made approx. $3500 +/- paypal came and shutdown the program in early Dec. of 2007, and freezing a number of members accounts too, mine included.
Brief Program description: New members now make a single payment (before it was 3 instant payments) of $49.99 (same price), broken down as follows: $20 goes to the new members sponsor, $20 is paid to the sponsor's sponsor (this is what makes this program so good!) and $9.99 goes to admin. You receive high quality eBooks and a replicated site and a full affiliate area.
The original owner was going to open a different program he had been working on and wanted me to check it out. I was honest and told him I did not like the "new" program, mostly because he was using a mobile texting payment processor, I just didn't think people would join using an unknown payment system. I said, please bring back 2020Unlimited using Alertpay. A few days later John, the owner, showed me his new 2020Unlimited v2.0, I loved it and we discussed whether instant payment is worth the hassle of 3 separate payments vs daily payments and a single payment. The daily payment & single payment was the better of the 2 options.
That's the reader's digest version. The program is killing it out there, I run my ads with a group url rotator with all my personals in the rotator, as I believe in helping my members. Out of the 8 personals I have, 4 are well into profit, 1 has a single sale and the remaining 3 are still working on their 1st sale. Compared to most programs, out of the 8 maybe 1 person would have made a sale(s) and the rest sitting at zero. So 2020Unlimited is a very different program and it is a win-win situation between you and your personally sponsored members. And unlike MLM plans, you have no limit on width, you can sponsor 100 and everytime one of those members makes a sale, so do you! Just think about the power of that, just find 1 go getter and you are set, if they make 10 referrals in a week, guess what, you've made $200 for just sponsoring 1 member!
Well, have to go start placing a few ads, I hope this helped Mike. Please let me know if you have any other questions. I wish you well on your online marketing efforts.
Regards,
Marv
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TJamMoneyMan
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#195 · Posted: 26 Oct 2010 17:52
AppealMarketing: If you read my post above I outlined the "work" involved (not that much), and my costs (also not very much), so why keep harping on it?
I am not 'harping' but giving my quality/value judgment on your repeated quantitative postings.
You have made such postings many, many times here.
A post or two of mine that gives another perspective on what you have been repeatedly posting (harping), is appropriate imho.
I followed you into this plan, paid money, and lost out like everyone else when 20/20U folded.
I found myself spending many hours (hardly 'not that much') daily following your marketing plans, and I think that qualifies me to state my opinions.
20/20u's owner did nothing to compensate those like me who, in good faith, paid in.
I know this info may negatively impact your bottom line here, but I think forum members need to know the whole truth, not just what those who seek to profit have to say about a plan.
If I had nothing whatsoever to do with 20/20U I would have little justification to make these comments.
But I have earned the right to tell of my experience with 20/20U.
The bottom line here is not just how many sales are being made, and how much money is being raked in - but how much time AND money it costs to do so.
You are only posting 'sales' but say nothing about 'expense'.
Sorry, but "not that much" just doesn't cut it!
I am just telling folx to be aware of that sales/expense ratio before making judgment.
Having had such experience, with THIS plan, gives me the right to do so!
Good luck 2u with this and whatever else you are doing Marv.
Sincerely!
Just don't expect me to hold back from voicing my experienced based opinions when I feel it's appropriate.
I don't DO that!
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AppealMarketing
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#196 · Posted: 26 Oct 2010 18:15
Hey TJAM,
You can voice your opinions anytime you want there buddy. I DID list my cost of advertising and time spent in the post a few up there, that's why I said the "harping" comment.
The end results (money) justifies the means (time & money) for 2020Unlimited and myself, by a LONG shot!
But if you remember TJAM, you did NOT join my 2020Unlimited group, you joined someone else's and that person did not want to help you, does that ring a bell?
I gave you help out of the goodness of my heart, if I remember correctly, you did make your money back and maybe a bit extra, isn't that correct? So you did not LOSE money, just some time, as I recall you were short on funds and were using free advertising.
I just wanted to set things straight TJAM.
I hope your online marketing these days is going better for you.
I never want to see people lose their money, but most people give up with very little effort on their part (this statement is a general one TJAM, nothing in reference to you) and go onto the next "big" thing, if they would have worked their original program, whatever that program may have been, they would have realized a profit. This folks is called program jumping, and dare I say, most online marketers fit into this category, I hate saying it, but unfortunately it is a true statement. A little patience is all most marketers need to succeed.
Back to posting some ads, have a nice night TJAM and all. By the way TJAM, are you still in the music biz? I'd like to hear what you are up to in that regard, take care.
Regards,
Marv
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TJamMoneyMan
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#197 · Posted: 26 Oct 2010 20:08 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
AppealMarketing: I gave you help out of the goodness of my heart, if I remember correctly, you did make your money back and maybe a bit extra, isn't that correct?
Yeah Marv, I appreciate your help - though I can hardly remember what was going on THREE YEARS ago!
You are a good person to learn marketing from.
And as I always said, I think you are sincere, hard working, and know what you are talking about - again from your own hard work and efforts at LEARNING the marketing game!
I just have an issue with your time/money value judgments.
For example:
AppealMarketing: So you did not LOSE money, just some time, as I recall you were short on funds and were using free advertising.
Time is without a doubt MONEY in my book of value!
'Free' advertising costs MONEY, again TIME = MONEY!
MOST of my early marketing efforts were a LOSS on the TIME = MONEY scale.
BUT there's experience and skills I have gained (both worth money!) so I have no regrets.
I am now finding most of my online success with AUTOMATED income streams.
Time is very valuable imho.
After all, our ONLY true possession in life is TIME!
It's ultimately limited too, though how we live and what we do with our limited allotment of time makes all the difference in the world!
AppealMarketing: By the way TJAM, are you still in the music biz? I'd like to hear what you are up to in that regard, take care
Of course!
That's where I make my greatest TIME investment!
Good luck 2u Marv, and may 20/20u work better for you and everyone else this time around, (20/20U owner not included LOL!!!)
Wishing the best of HEALTH to you as well Marv!
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freebird658
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#198 · Posted: 27 Oct 2010 17:49 · Edited by: freebird658
Gentlemen,
If I might put my 2 cents worth in here, of course the ideal scenario is to automate your efforts to free up your time and that is what we strive for. If your going to spend 16 hrs or more a day trying to get a signup that is only going to earn you $20 bucks hardly justifies a profit because you have only earned 1.25 an hour and if you spent money on advertising too then your in the red.
But if you work 16 hrs a day and earn.. say $200 then you have averaged $12.50 an hour. Still not great money for the effort but much better than $1.25 an hour. Most of the time you can put in these hrs day after day and may not even earn anything which widdles that houly rate down even further! Add THAT time with paid out of your pocket advertising and expenses and your more than likely STILL WAY in the red.
I guess what it boils down to, is just how much would you need to earn overall to justify the time and effort you have to invest to earn it. Ideally you want to earn the MOST money with LESS time involved to earn it in order to truly show a profit.
Problem is that many people don't know how to advertise or automate their efforts or build a list of people who will follow them, therefore they don't ever see a profit at all with these type of opportunities and get discouraged very quickly because they are led to believe it's easy, just sign up and pay your money. Or you get people that expect their upline to do all the work for them and they never try and make an honest effort themselves.
As with EVERYTHING on the internet, you reap what you sow. One has to truly WORK consistently to make any money. There are NO free rides. It's just too bad that so many people are led to believe otherwise.
Penny
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AppealMarketing
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#199 · Posted: 27 Oct 2010 18:19 · Edited by: AppealMarketing
Hey Folks,
I think we are getting a bit off topic here, while I agree with most of what you said Penny, if you want to discuss online marketing in general, there are plenty of forum threads on this forum that will fit the bill. Remember, this is a thread for 2020Unlimited.
And online marketing applies to ALL programs, biz ops and affiliate sites etc...
So, getting back to 2020Unlimited, out of my 8 personal sales, 6 have now made a sale and 4 of those are well into profit. I told my group last night that I will setup a mini rotator with the 4 members that aren't into profit as of yet, and will promote that link until they are all in profit, taking them out one by one until that goal is met.
My totals are, 8 Personals ($160) and 31 Group Sales ($620) for a grand total of $780, just one more to $800!
Talk soon.
Regards,
Marv
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freebird658
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#200 · Posted: 27 Oct 2010 19:18
Hi Marv,
I think we are getting a bit off topic here, while I agree with most of what you said Penny, if you want to discuss online marketing in general, there are plenty of forum threads on this forum that will fit the bill. Remember, this is a thread for 2020Unlimited.
Fair enough but what I have said applies to 2020Unlimited. It's not like a residual income opportunity where you leverage your income and build it and keep earning month after month for the work you have already done. You earn ONLY if you or your first level makes a sale. Which in my opinion requires MORE TIME and MORE work and one has to evaluate whether the income they may or may NOT make is worth the time they need to invest to earn it.
BTW..I take it John decided not to allow the previous 1.0 members who didn't stand a chance a free membership in 2.0? I haven't seen you post anything more on the subject. Personally my opinion is by him not doing so just solidify's the mis-trust that most people have about this program and is probably costing you and many others' sales.
After all HE'S the one that advertised 2020U 1.0 as a Paypal APPROVED program and his members believed him until they all got their Paypal accounts shut down and lost their money and then combine that with his non-communication has a tendency to make most people (especially those who remember) very leery of 2.0! But That is not a bad thing..people should be suspicious and do their due diligence before parting with their money with ANY program.
Penny
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