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Aspire
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#81 · Posted: 20 Jul 2008 16:42
This guy on YouTube has taken the Hydrogen Generator and is in the process of making it an exact science.
Have a scroll down the page and watch some of his video entries.
There is no doubt that it works.
http://www.youtube.com/user/OriginalUncleNemo
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kuja
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#82 · Posted: 21 Jul 2008 12:24
raj thanks for the tip but for me it is to late 750 thats not right try closer to $1700. darn tefflon coated wire is $280 for 625 ft spool, or 51 cents a foot. That is not evan covering taps, eching solution $50 hypressure tubing $169 for 20 ft and same with 24'' by 48'' cpvc sheet plastic $169.
Please keep trying we here in Indiana are all most finished with project. My cost every year is $3500 in fuel a year now what is $1700 in relation to freeing my self of energy problems. How many applications can you think of that can run hydrogen on besides a car ?
I Can think of at least 4 and what about next year when gas prices are at 6 dollars a gallon then what? people think things are rough now.! Do not give up just because caust is alitle high on development I am Not till I proove fake or not. I am willing to help anyone with the desire/resolve to develop this project...!!!!
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philt
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#83 · Posted: 31 Jul 2008 04:14
Anyone have any updates on this yet? I am watching this forum to see if anyone has any success with this.
Thanks
Phil
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Aspire
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#84 · Posted: 1 Aug 2008 16:54 · Edited by: Aspire
philt: Anyone have any updates on this yet?
Hi Phil,
I have been doing quite a bit of research on this since first joining this thread.
There is a lot of scepticism about HHO, and in my oppinion this being mainly due to the amount of scams out there.
I have some field tests presently being done to establish the viability and hope to have some interesting results to post soon. In general, the main issues I have found are:
1. HHO generation works if set up properly. The volume of HHO gas required to make a significant difference to your vehicle economy is dependant on the total surface area of the electrodes. If you have a large surface arera, you will produce a reasonable volume. If you have a simple coil of wire, there may be HHO produced, but not in significant quantities to make your fuel bill go down.
2. From the research I have been doing, there are many systems producing 1 ltr of HHO gas per minute - This will give approx 10% to 15% reduction in fuel use. Anything less and it will be a waste of time. There are a few businesses now set up supplying HHO generators to the trucking industry and these produce 1,200 ltrs per hour. Applying this system to cars will give you more than sufficient HHO to run your car completely on HHO. Have a look at this web site http://www.gethydropower.com/index.html
3. Just plugging a HHO generator into your car may not necessarily improve your economy. Some vehicles computerised fuel systems rely on an Oxygen Sensor plugged into your inlet manifold and exhaust to regulate the amount of fuel poured into the engine. When the Oxygen levels decrease or increase, the computer automatically either Leans up - or riches up the fuel/air mixture. There is simple electronic equipment available that allows you to replace the O2 sensors with this, and it allows you to adjust your signal given to the computer thus allowing the economy thing to kick in. The frustrating thing here is that without this equipment, you can put in the best additives, enhancers and hybrid fuel systems but you will end up using the same amount of fuel - *** This only applies to SOME vehicles **** Remember that when burning HHO, the by product of this is water, a higher oxygen level and a lower hydrocarbon and pollution level.
4. When choosing the type of HHO generator, you need to give attention to the power draining requirements of the system. Some go as high as 30A to produce HHO - There are people working on systems that pulse the power to the generator and end up requiring about half an amp to do the same thing. This is very exciting....
Now you have done it - You got me going...... (self restraint kicks in) - When my field tests are complete I will make available the findings to all.
Regards
Paul
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Aspire
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#85 · Posted: 3 Aug 2008 01:26 · Edited by: Aspire
There are a lot of sceptics out there regarding hydrogen Generators because there is no set standard developed for these systems, and the effective units are clouded in popularity by the scams.
I have found a guy on YouTube who has made countless hundreds of movies documenting countless experiments. This guy is fantastic and is the science needed behind HHO getting off the ground.
I have just spent three hours watching some of his movies and I was waiting for the hidden ulterior motive - but there isn't one - He is doing it all in the name of benefiting humanity and has even set up a dot org web site so everyone has access to his technical information.
You won't be disappointed, and the sceptics will change their mind. He refuses to sell anything - He gives his innovations away and he proves and explains everything in his movies - Very refreshing....
YouTube - http://nz.youtube.com/zerofossilfuel
Website - http://www.alt-nrg.org
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xoxomarketing
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#86 · Posted: 5 Aug 2008 19:42
I think it works on the electrolysis of water via power from the battey. The hydrogen is pulled into the intake in addition to the normal feed of gas creating amore combustible hybrid vapor. I know craigslist has lots of people advertising that they will insall the thing for $xxx amount of money. I currenty get 38mpg already and even a 2% increase would be great for me. I will definitely keep an eye on this thread.
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Aspire
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#87 · Posted: 6 Aug 2008 08:14 · Edited by: Aspire
xoxomarketing: I think it works on the electrolysis of water via power from the battery
Correct � I have been researching this a great deal.
You have a series of stainless steel electrolysis plates placed together with + and � charges. You also have neutral plates and if you have too many, it either works at a decreased efficiency regardless of power, or you really need to crank up the power to get it to produce sufficient gas to make a difference.
High powered HHO generators will work with straight forward water, lower powered units need an electrolyte to assist.
It has been found that a pulsing DC power supply has a better effect than straight forward constant DC power. This allows you to deliver a higher amperage without the corresponding heat increase you would get with constant voltage.
The type of generator you use determines the total amperage needed to produce gas, and the race is on to develop low power units that still produce enough gas. Typically, running 12v @ 15 to 20 amps in a reasonable unit produces a gas flow of 1 ltr per minute. The more power you pump into it you start getting wasted energy re heat.
There are a few companies producing rigs for trucks producing 1500 ltrs per hour. Theoretically you could run this in a car, but it would consume too much power (and you wouldn't have sufficient space for a large bank of HHO cells)
If you have a car with EFI and oxygen sensors you will also need some electronics that produces a fake Oxygen sensor signal. When you use Hydrogen mixed with your air, you have a full burn within the cylinder resulting in decreased Oxygen in the exhaust. The sensors then automatically riches up your fuel flow to accommodate for this, thus the need to have a O2 bypass unit. There are many manual units on the market around $100 and one company has built a computer system that automatically regulates the 1.5V signal from the O2 sensor � This sells around the $400 mark.
I am skimming the surface here and have a lot more to learn, but believe that they work. Just be mindful of the volume of gas they produce � anything less than 1 ltr per minute is a waste of your time and money. I am presently looking at a computerised system that produces up to 3 ltrs per min from a major reputable company that offers a money back guarantee and has a distribution network in 20 countries (mainly looking after the truck industry)
There is this guy on E-Bay that sells units, but this is his only commercial front and the only feedback on E-Bay is that he delivers promptly. I have sent off several emails to him and he has not bothered getting back to me. Obviously you need to feel comfortable that the person supplying you a unit will give you one that works and you will not be throwing your money away.
In my oppinion, these "Plans" you buy on the internet are simply a scam preying on the hopes of many - I suggest staying away from them. I purchased one set and have listed it in a previous posting on this page for you to download if you wish (FREE)
I found one guy in the US and he is doing a controlled field test with a 1 ltr/min unit with the O2 sensor bypass I mentioned. I hope to have results back soon on this.
I started off sceptical about this. Now after reading heaps of info and sifting through the BS and legit movies on YouTube I now know that it works.
When I have all my test results and info I will post it here.
Regards
Paul
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justlikethat
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#88 · Posted: 6 Aug 2008 11:09
I think this is so cool! I will be watching to see how it turns out for everyone!
Keep us posted!
Victoria
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kuja
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#89 · Posted: 6 Aug 2008 12:34 · Edited by: kuja
wow nice to see i am not the only person who has been harpping about trying to build systems. difference between practice and theory is very obvious. Thanks to all who put there time and money into development.
I have run out of funds trying to build runcaronwater.com blue prints and i am almost finished. I am willing to help anyone with the nerve to ask me. Where to get parts like the coil premade, stainless steel tubing to spec, cpvc and new potiometers. my advice to all who care to try this project this is not a cheep investment. on a short term scale $1700-$2100 full hydrocar not a hybrid.
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Aspire
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#90 · Posted: 6 Aug 2008 16:20 · Edited by: Aspire
kuja: my advice to all who care to try this project this is not a cheep investment. on a short term scale $1700-$2100 full hydrocar
From what i have seen, it is necessary to have a vaccume system extracting the gas from the cell to assist in getting the maximum HHO extraction and an increased pressure flow to the engine.
Question? - On a full HHO system, are you looking at a gas delivery system similar to LPG cars? You obviously will not be able to simply direct the gas into the air intake.
Another Question? - With a complete HHO car, there will be an increased water by product (eg steam for exhaust). Have you thought about increased risk of rusting your exhaust system? Different places on the internet are recommending complete stainless steel exhaust systems when you increase the volume of gas to over 3 litres per minute in vehicles with engines up to 5000cc capacity.
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Aspire
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#91 · Posted: 7 Aug 2008 20:06 · Edited by: Aspire
BillChechel: see if it actually works
Hi Bill,
There is no question as to if the process works or not � the technology has been around for many decades.
From the research I have been doing, Hydrogen was an un-wanted by-product of Chrome Plating. When you pass a high DC current through an electrolyte solution � The positive attached to a soft metal, the negative attached to the metal to be plated and the passing of current through it, you coated the negative metal with components of the positive metal. The by-product (hydrogen) usually escaped as a gas, but Hydrogen molecules sometimes etched itself into the negative metal making a poor plating. (thus the unwanted by product)
Some enterprising people worked out that this gas was lighter than air and started building Dirigibles (air ships).
I remember doing experiments at school 40 years ago using a strip of aluminium and a metal nail using a solution of orange juice as the electrolyte. The nail became coated with the aluminium. (I did not know that I also produced Hydrogen at the time)
If you want to do this yourself to see if it works, grab a couple of stainless steel spoons connected to a car battery, and suspend the spoons in a solution of salt water. You will see the hydrogen bubbles created for yourself. This will be dependant on how close the spoons are together, and the intensity of the electrolyte. DO NOT let the spoons touch each other.
Using good quality surgical grade stainless steel will not allow the metal to flow from the + to the -, but you will get HHO.
The trick with all the plans and units on the market for HHO generators is to get a configuration that uses less power to get more volume of gas. Careful placing of the plates and construction of the unit will yield maximum HHO output.
The next trick is to get a gas management system that allows your engine to use it.
A turbo Charger simply pours more fuel into the cylinder to give you increased power. Feeding HHO gas into the cylinder with petrol will allow for combustion to happen easier (less fuel use), and because you are introducing a clean combustible product to the process, you will get less emissions.
The average HHO generator can use up to 30 amps if you choose to tweak it so high for extra output. The only time you need to worry about excessive power drain is when you have multiple units running at the same time to produce even more gas. Trucks with large banks of HHO generators are advised to get a higher output Alternator to accommodate for the need.
A coil of wire in a jam jar will produce HHO, but probably not in sufficient quantity to make a significant difference to your economy. The vital configuration needs are:
� Total surface area of the plates
� The distance these plates are from each other
� The density and type of the electrolyte used
� The amount of current applied.
Hope this has helped to put peoples minds at ease regarding "If HHO Generators Work"
Regards
Paul
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Aspire
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#92 · Posted: 10 Aug 2008 08:19 · Edited by: Aspire
Aspire: and suspend the spoons in a solution of salt water
This will also produce chlorine gas and coat the electrodes with sodium - This is used in Salt Water Chlorinators for pools. This is obviously not a good electrolysis solution for HHO production, but it serves as a good test.
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lightner01
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#93 · Posted: 12 Aug 2008 16:48
search the web for Smack Booster's, this guy has free info and shows how to make it on youtube. He even gives you a parts list with part numbers to order the parts. He learned alot from Stan Meyer ( if you don't know him look him up as well) and Bob Boyce.
Good Luck!
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jjc68
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#94 · Posted: 12 Aug 2008 19:31
I recently got a hold of the water4gas thing. I looked at the emails that they sent me first just to get an idea of what was going on. They were basically saying that you could make your own HHO generator. And the HHO that you do generate is injected through the air intake to help make the gasoline more efficient. If you are thinking that you will run your car strictly on HHO that you will produce with one of these kits you might be a little mislead. Not saying that it isn't possible just not with these kits, in my opinion.
Also, I am pretty sure that hydrogen cars have been around for awhile. One problem is just getting filled up again. The filling stations are just not very abundant. This will change eventually but I think that one reason this hasn't caught on as much is because producing hydrogen from water through electrolysis takes more energy than it can produce (I could be mistaken though).
Aspire is doing a great job on explaining everything and I am looking forward to see what type of numbers he gets. I will eventually build one myself and just test it myself but I am not going to guarantee when that will actually happen.
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Aspire
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#95 · Posted: 13 Aug 2008 06:37
jjc68: electrolysis takes more energy than it can produce (I could be mistaken though).
The only HHO units to consider are ones that have a variable power control to supply the cell with juice. A balance between the electrolyte solution and variable power delivers different flow rates of HHO.
Some of the better units ready made promote adjusting the power to suit your requirements. Obviously to get more HHO you need more reaction in the cell plates. Increasing the power will do this.
Your car has a bank of fuses, and I am sure that some of them will be 30Amp. Most reliable HHO generators suggest putting a 30A relay and fuse on the system.
A quality system capable of producing 2 to 3 litres per minute has been tested to do so drawing 15A to 20A. Poorer quality systems with un-balanced plate arrays will need more than 20A to produce 1 ltr.
The avreage car can accomodate for 10A to 20A drain without any problems. If it is unable to do this, there may have been an underlying problem with the alternator and it was only a matter of time before it needed replacing.
There are vehicles with banks of HHO generators that require more power, and they accomodate for this with a higher output alternator and larger capacity battery storage.
Heating and power drain are being explored with using a pulsating power supply onto a finely tuned plate array - The result is more HHO with less power use and lower heat generated.
One enterprising person I have been researching has patented a HHO system that uses 1/2A to generate 1 ltr per minute in an ongoing cold electrolyte solution. He is already dealing with the US government supplying units to military vehicles. This is the commercial edge to go into mass production, but I am pretty sure that there will be at least a decade or two of red tape.
Can you imagine the financial drain to the governments of dozens of countries if all of a sudden people everywhere only used 50% of fuel?
Here in Australia the government was contemplating a tax relief of 5 cents per litre. This would marginally reduce the price at the pumps, but it would mean a revenue drop of $2 billion per year to the government. Where do you think they would make up their shortfall????
Delecate grounds with this technology - I honestly feel like I am being held to ransom each time I fill up.
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SA Citizen
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#96 · Posted: 14 Aug 2008 15:44
Hi bMarley,
If still availabale will you please mail me the instructions. My two sons - 20 and 18 stumbled upon this and want to purchase. They are at the age where they will try anything and believe (and waste hard earned money).
I would like them to study the material first.
Thanking you in advance
email to - [email protected]
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Aspire
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#97 · Posted: 14 Aug 2008 17:42 · Edited by: Aspire
There have been 9,176 people view this thread at the time of this posting.
Why are there so few people contributing to it?
Are my postings helping anyone?
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ljeb
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#98 · Posted: 14 Aug 2008 19:04
Laziness. I am not currently building anything so I don't have anything to contribute really. The recent MIT discovery on solar has a nice little tid bit that sounds like it could really help increase the production of HHO. I think they used cobalt and platinum as electrodes.
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Aspire
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#99 · Posted: 15 Aug 2008 18:51 · Edited by: Aspire
ljeb: The recent MIT discovery on solar has a nice little tid bit that sounds like it could really help increase the production of HHO
Hey! - great info - I googled it and found it fascinating. It is going to be the next phase of HHO evolution. I see a couple of problems.
The way I read it, Yes, you will get more production but it will be in separate streams of bubbles from the different electrodes. Hydrogen from one, and Oxygen from the other. This will give a non constant density of HHO using the present gas collection methods. The gas that you will feed into the air intake will either be H rich or O rich at different times. Without sufficient O getting through your engine will stall ( just like having the choke on all the time)
The cost of Cobalt and Platinum is very restrictive. Remember that Cobalt is a rare element and Platinum is an expensive precious metal. Building electrodes out of these materials will make the project very cost restrictive.
If you then decide to electroplate the Stainless Steel HHO plates with the materials, as soon as you turn on the HHO generator you will in fact be electroplating your negative plates with the coating of your positive plates. This will effectively remove the plating from the positive and deposit it on the negative.
The way I see it, you would need to have two separate generators - A cobaly one, and a Platinum one. Both will need to produce their own gas, and the outputs from each need to be thoroughly mixed to gether in a mixing tank before being fed through the backfire arrestor into the engine.
This presents a problem - You are now storing a supply of Hydrogen in a container within your car and this is dangerous.
I will definately keep my eye on progress with this.
Anyone else wanting to follow this, please also post your findings for us all.
Regards
Paul
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ljeb
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#100 · Posted: 17 Aug 2008 14:14
I could be wrong as I did not read it that closely, and what I read was a media report, not an actual scientific report. But I think that all they were saying is that the H come off the platinum electrode and the O comes off the cobalt electrode (the platinum is getting a positive, and cobalt negative charge). It works the same way with stainless steel electrodes. The H comes off the electrodes with a positive charge and the O comes off the electrodes with a negative charge. So you would still have the same ratios coming out and in the same container. For the method to have any result, there is always the same ratio of 2H to O.
As far as the cost goes, that is very true. But I think that unless we can get pulse wave modulation (PWM) or some other form of frequency manipulation to work, that cobalt and platinum might be the only choice (for now). Cobalt is trading around $50 a pound and platinum is around $1400 per ounce. The problem would be the platinum. If you need 6 ounces of platinum that is $8400!! At least you should only need it once per vehicle, as the cobalt and platinum are only catalysts and do not get consumed.
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