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Jonathan25
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Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
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#1 · Posted: 23 Sep 2009 20:37 · Edited by: Jonathan25
Hello everyone,
Since a good 6 months, Ive been involved in two programs and the last one is a cash gifting program. Since I've read the canadian law concerning internet job opportunities (mlm, pyramid scheme, etc), I'm not feeling good anymore for marketing my cash gifting program. So I would like to try something else, and I would like to try the programs I thought about some months ago: Abunza or the IPC program.
However, I would like you, people, to read this, this is a part of the law concerning pyramid schemes, from the Competition Bureau of Canada:
"A scheme of pyramid selling is a multi-level marketing plan that incorporates any one of a number of specified marketing practices that make it a criminal offence under the Competition Act.
It is illegal if:
* participants pay money for the right to receive compensation for recruiting new participants;
* a participant is required to buy a specific quantity of products, other than at cost price for the purpose of advertising, before the participant is allowed to join the plan or advance within the plan;
* participants are knowingly sold commercially unreasonable quantities of the product or products (this practice is called inventory loading); or
* participants are not allowed to return products on reasonable commercial terms.
AND
"A scheme of pyramid selling is a form of an MLM plan focussed primarily on generating earnings through recruitment. These schemes may offer products, however the products may have very little value or the plan may offer limited incentives for their sale. Income in the scheme is derived primarily from the money prospective participants pay to join the scheme and not from the sale of product."
So it seems like 80% of work at home opportunities we can find on the net make you do what is specifield in bold characters. I can name some programs that looks like this is what you have to do in bold characters:
The IPC Program, LGN Revolution, Abunza, any matrix programs, cash gifting programs and many more...
With the IPC Program and the LGN Revolution programs, sure you have products with them. Softwares you can buy, so electronic products, thats ok. But let's face it, does the main thing you do with those 2 programs is making money of people who sign-up and not from the products? I think that yes!!! See above again what the canadian law says.
And I think that the american law looks like similar.
Tell me what you think people, I need your thoughts. Because as it is now, that is pretty impossible for me to choose a internet work at home opportunity and I would like so much to work at home and to be successfull at it. What opportunity could I choose?
Thanx in advance for your comments... I think that you never saw a post like this, I looked thru the forum pages, and I couldn't find a topic like that yet. That is a special topic, yes! 
Ooooh, damn, sorry, I think I just posted in the wrong section, that is why I didnt see my kind of post. My appologizes!
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joanpeterson
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Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 150
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#2 · Posted: 24 Sep 2009 00:48
I can tell you that cash gifting is illegal. If anyone tells you otherwise, go down to your local police and tell them about your program and see what they say. The BBB in the US says, "Think Bernie Madoff was the last of the investment advisor frauds? The fact is there are many "mini-Madoffs" alive and well � and looking to trap you into their own Ponzi scheme.
The Better Business Bureau found that thousands of "cash gifting" videos are up and running on places like YouTube � promising people that they can make a few extra dollars in this tight economy. Actually, these cash gifting clubs are illegal pyramid schemes � and could cost you thousands of dollars.
These scams usually come in the form of high-yield investment or business opportunities. But use your common sense. If it sounds too good to be true, it always is. "
And many of the MLM companies out there are legal. You won't get into trouble for marketing companies like Xango, Agel, Isagenix, 4Life Research, Xocai, Amway, TriVita, Tupperware, Avon, Pampered Chef....to name a few. Pampered Chef is owned by Warren Buffett's company - Berkshire Hathaway and they would not be buying a scam.
For any company you want to promote ask yourself," Does the company you promote have a real product of value?"
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Jonathan25
Forums Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
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#3 · Posted: 24 Sep 2009 01:13
Thanx for you post! This tell me even more about cash gifting. I'm gonna stop this activity right now! I really want to be comfortable in what I wanna do and I really want to enjoy helping other people by doing what I love. As it is now, I would not feel good if I continued to do that activity.
And thanx for telling me some MLM compagnies, I didnt think at all about some that you listed!
But what about the IPC Program, Abunza, LGN Revolution, you certainly know these programs? They are quite popular. What are your thoughts about it (legality pupose)?
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kathywhatley
Forums Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 6
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#4 · Posted: 24 Sep 2009 11:24 · Edited by: kathywhatley
Hi Jonathan,
I just joined this forum and I saw your post. I agree with what Joan said. You have to pick a company that gives you products that have value. Cash gifting is definitely not the way to go. Since you mentioned LGN Revolution I will tell you that I am a member of LGN Revolution. I truly believe that we have very good products, which were all updated recently, along with a very big update to the LGN Revolution program itself. We are a totally legal company and our products are valued at thousands of dollars, so a person is definitely getting their money's worth as far as products go. There are many useful ones that I myself use.
Yes it is true that a good part of the money I make is when other people join under me, but the person joining is getting the opportunity to make a lot of money themselves, just like you could, and they get all of the products. Like I said I use a lot of them so I don't feel that they are "worthless" products.
What I really like about LGN Revolution, which is different than any other online business I know of, is that we have an LGN Store where we are allowed to sell the products individually, so that means that if someone is interested in the products, but not the opportunity, they can still buy the products without having to join. I think this is a very good part of our business because it opens up a lot more opportunities for sales. You can resell a lot of the products yourself, wherever you want to, and make money that way.
Another thing I really like about LGN is that there are three different levels to join, so with our economy the way it is, it opens up this business to a lot more people that can afford it.
And the biggest thing that I really like about LGN is that we have people that can call people back for you if they so wish and close sales for you. Of course you could still call people yourself, or if you are someone who doesn't like talking on the phone, as I said we have people that will do that for you.
All in all I truly think that LGN Revolution is one of the best online businesses around. It has everything you could want in an online business and then some.
Feel free to contact me if you would like further information.
Good luck to you in your quest!
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BobFirestone
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Joined: 1 Jul 2009
Posts: 144
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#5 · Posted: 24 Sep 2009 14:43
joanpeterson: For any company you want to promote ask yourself," Does the company you promote have a real product of value?"
If the product is good people will buy it and use it. That is how to build a business and reputation that you can be proud of.
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Jonathan25
Forums Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
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#6 · Posted: 24 Sep 2009 20:58 · Edited by: Jonathan25
Yeah, for example with Abunza, you buy a library of electronic products. I think that Abunza, among LGN Revolution, the IPC program, and other same kind of programs, etc, is the best of all of them. Of course, the products are electronic products, so... the level of interest will depend of the kind of people who will see those I guess...
I just looked deeply the Abunza program today and it seems like it can be legit here in Canada, according to what I said in my first post above.
What are your thoughts people?
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Jonathan25
Forums Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
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#7 · Posted: 29 Sep 2009 23:49 · Edited by: Jonathan25
I just saw this information today, wow, you people if you come from Canada and if you are involved in an online opportunity, you have to see this: http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/02081.html
After reading this, I'm wondering if any legal online opportunities exist. I mean... 98% of what I'm seeing as online opportunities could be considerated as a pyramid scheme by the Competition Bureau of Canada. Damn!!
I would like so much to join Abunza but when I read the text (you can see it if you click on the link above), it seems like this is not a legal opportunity. Or maybe I'm missing something and this is a legal one... That law is so confusing! 
AND
kathywhatley, could you take a look at the website link I just added in this post? Do you think that LGN Revolution is still legal for us Canadians, after reading this? I find that so confusing, tell me what you think!
As well, I have found this with the BBB website, for you, american people:
BBB recommends consumers exercise extreme caution when evaluating any business opportunity and consider the following advice in order to make an informed decision:
� Avoid any plan that places primary emphasis on commissions for recruiting additional distributors. It may be an illegal pyramid scheme.
� Beware of plans that require purchase of expensive products and marketing materials upfront. These plans may be pyramid schemes in disguise.
So again, it seems like anything can be a pyramid scheme??? For example with Abunza, LGN, when you join, you have to purchase marketing material upfronts.
I would like so much that MANY people can see this tread, this is very important for me, I'm thinking of starting a new tread about this but I don't think that the moderators will find that this will be a good idea...
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didaventures
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 8
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#8 · Posted: 30 Sep 2009 12:04
I'm also in Canada and worried about this as well.
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kathywhatley
Forums Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 6
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#9 · Posted: 30 Sep 2009 12:47
Hi, I am looking into this for you and should have an answer today. I am not an attorney, but I have been a paralegal so maybe I can interpret some of this for you. I have found the law for this for Canada, I just need a little more time to research it.
Kathy
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joanpeterson
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Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 150
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#10 · Posted: 30 Sep 2009 12:51 · Edited by: joanpeterson
I know if one reads what is on sites like the BBB and the Competition Bureau websites one is unlikely ever to join a business online.
But companies like Tupperware, Avon, Amway are amongst many legitimate companies online. Pampered Chef is a similiar type of company and is owned by Berkshire Hathaway - Warren Buffett's company. These companies are not about to be shut down in Canada or the Unites States.
Have some of these companies had legal issues? Yes - but so have traditional brick and mortar companies. That does not make them illegal. Are there unscrupulous distributors in some of these companies that cause legal problems? Yes, there is and always will be.
If one would go by the Competition Bureau, one would be lead to believe that anything that costs more than a few dollars is a scam.
But one has to get down to the basics.
Does the company have a product to sell that has real value....regardless of the cost?
Everyone must do their own due diligence and proceed with caution and go with what you feel comfortable with.
Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss a certain company.
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kathywhatley
Forums Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 6
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#11 · Posted: 30 Sep 2009 12:53
Well said Joan!
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joanpeterson
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Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 150
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#12 · Posted: 30 Sep 2009 13:02
Thanks for the comment Kathy!
I think another thing that people must learn when researching businesses online is just because someone somewhere has said it is a scam, does NOT mean that it is.
It is a well known marketing strategy to put out articles alluding to a certain company being a scam when the real intent is to have someone click on that and look at your business. They use the word scam in the article because they know people are always researching the companies online and scam is a popular keyword they will use.
And just because you or someone you know did not make money in the company does NOT make it a scam.
Marketing online is work but it can be very lucrative if you learn the proper techniques and strategies to move ahead of the failure crowd.
But every individual must do their own due diligence and then make a decision that they are comfortable with.
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kathywhatley
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Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 6
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#13 · Posted: 30 Sep 2009 15:32
After reviewing what the law says, and again, I'm not an attorney, but I do not believe it is illegal because of one key thing - as said before, the products.
Here is what the law says:
Definition of "multi-level marketing plan"
55. (1) For the purposes of this section and section 55.1, "multi-level marketing plan" means a plan for the supply of a product whereby a participant in the plan receives compensation for the supply of the product to another participant in the plan who, in turn, receives compensation for the supply of the same or another product to other participants in the plan.
Representations as to compensation
(2) No person who operates or participates in a multi-level marketing plan shall make any representations relating to compensation under the plan to a prospective participant in the plan unless the representations constitute or include fair, reasonable and timely disclosure of the information within the knowledge of the person making the representations relating to
(a) compensation actually received by typical participants in the plan; or
(b) compensation likely to be received by typical participants in the plan, having regard to any relevant considerations, including
>>> LGN Revolution does disclose this. What we say is that as with any marketing business how much you can earn depends on the efforts that each person puts forth. We tell a person what is possible to receive if they put forth good effort.
(i) the nature of the product, including its price and availability,
>>> LGN Revolution shows all of our products and the nature of the product, its price and its availability (since they are digital they are immediately available after a person signs up).
(ii) the nature of the relevant market for the product,
>>> I believe our products speak for themselves on this one.
(iii) the nature of the plan and similar plans, and
>>> LGN Revolutino definitely discloses this, we totally let a person know exactly what they are getting into, how our plan works, and what they will have to do to succeed.
(iv) whether the person who operates the plan is a corporation, partnership, sole proprietorship or other form of business organization.
>>> LGN discloses this too.
Idem
(2.1) A person who operates a multi-level marketing plan shall ensure that any representations relating to compensation under the plan that are made to a prospective participant in the plan by a participant in the plan or by a representative of the person who operates the plan constitute or include fair, reasonable and timely disclosure of the information within the knowledge of the person who operates the plan relating to
(a) compensation actually received by typical participants in the plan; or
(b) compensation likely to be received by typical participants in the plan, having regard to any relevant considerations, including those specified in paragraph (2)(b).
Due diligence defence
(2.2) A person accused of an offence under subsection (2.1) shall not be convicted of the offence if the accused establishes that he or she took reasonable precautions and exercised due diligence to ensure
(a) that no representations relating to compensation under the plan were made by participants in the plan or by representatives of the accused; or
(b) that any representations relating to compensation under the plan that were made by participants in the plan or by representatives of the accused constituted or included fair, reasonable and timely disclosure of the information referred to in that subsection.
55.1 (1) For the purposes of this section, "scheme of pyramid selling" means a multi-level marketing plan whereby
(a) a participant in the plan gives consideration for the right to receive compensation by reason of the recruitment into the plan of another participant in the plan who gives consideration for the same right;
(b) a participant in the plan gives consideration, as a condition of participating in the plan, for a specified amount of the product, other than a specified amount of the product that is bought at the seller's cost price for the purpose only of facilitating sales;
>>> this I think is key to the whole thing at least as far as with LGN Revolution - our products are not only for the purpose of facilitating sales - they are for the purpose of using them as I use them. We have hundreds of products, all digital, and all of them are very useful, of course depending on what a person would want, i.e., some may be useful to some and and not to others. But who is to judge what product is useful for one person and what is not? Some could say the lawmakers of Canada (or the U.S. for that matter), but where is it anywhere in this law that clarifies which kind of products are useful and which are not! It doesn't. This is very subjective and I think it is something that would be very, very, very hard to prove in court. So hard that if I lived in Canada, I would not be the least bit worried about it.
(c) a person knowingly supplies the product to a participant in the plan in an amount that is commercially unreasonable; or
>>>Again, this could be very subjective. If it was a product that normally sold for say $40.00 and a company was trying to sell it for $4000.00, then that could probably be deemed as unreasonable, if it could be proved that the product was really only worth $40.00. But who is to say what a product is worth? For example, say Wal-Mart made a pair of jeans that sold for $20.00, but a fashion designer made a pair of jeans that pretty much looked the same as the pair from Wal-Mart, that fashion designer would probably sell that pair of jeans for over a hundred dollars just because their name is on them. So what I am trying to say is that the value of something is in the person who creates it so, who is to say what is commercially unreasonable.
(d) a participant in the plan who is supplied with the product
(i) does not have a buy-back guarantee that is exercisable on reasonable commercial terms or a right to return the product in saleable condition on reasonable commercial terms, or
(ii) is not informed of the existence of the guarantee or right and the manner in which it can be exercised.
>>> Most anything bought online that is a digital product does not have a return policy, not just in businesses like LGN Revolution or Abunza, but in all kinds of other businesses. It just makes sense for businesses to do this, because how can you return a digital product. A person downloads the product on to their computer and it is there to stay. Sure they could contact the company and say that they are unsatisfied with the product, but there is no way for the company to get back something that is arleady downloaded on to someone's computer.
So after all that what it boils down to is that in my opinion, I think LGN Revolution is in no way illegal in Canada or anywhere else.
Especially and even more so than other online companies because we have our LGN Store.
A person can sell the products they get individually, so they are getting a good value out of the products, as in they can make money on the products too, not just the opportunity.
That is what the law mainly is talking about - that they want an online business to give value, not just be about recruiting people to join.
If I were you I would do a lot of research about Abunza. I am really not trying to put down another business and build mine up, but I have not heard that great of things about Abunza. I think it's starting to phase out.
I hope this helps!
Kathy Whatley
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Jonathan25
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Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 13
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#14 · Posted: 30 Sep 2009 16:55
Oh wow thanx Kathy for your unbeleivable detailed answer! This is really what I was looking for... I think that I'm gonna read more than one time what you just said, to be sure to understand fully. Thanx again!
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joanpeterson
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Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 150
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#15 · Posted: 30 Sep 2009 17:12
I agree with what you have said above Kathy. Great post and it should help some people realize that though scams abound online, there are legit ones.
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kathywhatley
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Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 6
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#16 · Posted: 30 Sep 2009 17:14
You are welcome Jonathan! No problem.
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kathywhatley
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Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 6
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#17 · Posted: 30 Sep 2009 17:15
Very true Joan!
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KarlFabian
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Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 21
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#18 · Posted: 1 Oct 2009 00:32
Illegal illegal illegal illegal illegal but irrelevant since no Internet police to shut em down. Most legal programs should also be closed down but that's also irrelevant. Best Advice, Carry lots of Vaseline?
Be well
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