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fsagarnaga
Forums Member
Joined: 8 Nov 2007
Posts: 14
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#201 · Posted: 12 May 2008 02:37
I agree with you, this people just try to take money out of needed people.
Remember usually, if it sounds too good to be true, it is not true.
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1trae
Forums Member
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 11
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#202 · Posted: 12 May 2008 09:28
There are alot of scams out there. You just have to find what works for you. But of course that is easier said than done.
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freepaidsurveys
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Joined: 8 May 2008
Posts: 17
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#203 · Posted: 19 May 2008 11:35
Thanks. I will never pay for work at home jobs.
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RayvinAndRob
Forums Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 195
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#204 · Posted: 19 May 2008 19:35
It's not difficult to identify a scam when you know the tell-tale signs of one.
1. Policies and Procedures cannot be found anywhere on the company site.
2. Policies and Procedures are so long and loaded with doublespeak it takes a team of linguistics experts to decipher it.
3. Policies and Procedures cost money to get.
4. Policies and Procedures are not attainable through email, you have to wait for them to arrive by snail mail.
5. You jump through many hoops to get them snail mailed to you.
6. The company mails you their Terms and Conditions instead of their Policies and Procedures.
7. You go through all of the above a second time and finally succeed at getting someone to mail you the actual Policies and Procedures. (But you had to explain the difference between Terms and Conditions and Policies and Procedures to the rep you corresponded with BY FAX (because they wouldn't answer their darn telephone.) You have no idea why faxing them worked.
8. You get the mammoth document in your hands, lift the heavy cover open to the first page and start reading. By the time you get to page 3, you realize you had absolutely no clue what you just read means.
9. You paid good money for the document, you're bound and determined to read it. You push on.
10. A week later, you are done. And you're convinced you should sell your home so you can sign up as soon as you can. You're also thinking of who would be willing to buy your kidney.
Rob Nyte
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Freedom
Forums Member
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 36
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#205 · Posted: 27 May 2008 03:17
I agree on not paying for work at home jobs, but there is a difference in a work at home opportunity where you work for yourself. No matter what always do your homework. Check the company out with the BBB. Check with people that are already doing the program. If the company is legit they will have no problem giving you references to talk to.
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PMHayes
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Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 129
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#206 · Posted: 29 May 2008 05:28 · Edited by: PMHayes
I stumbled upon this thread, and cannot believe what i read in the first post. Please tell me why MLM is being included in a list of scams. This is unacceptable. MLM is a legitimate business model.
MLM is taught in most business schools today as a very ethical and efficient business model. A quote from Dr. Charles W. King, Professor of Marketing at the University of Illinois in Chicago, and a Ph.D. in business from Harvard University, "Network Marketing or MLM is the one of the most efficient and ethical ways for companies to move products from the manufacturer to the end consumer." A university PhD said this, not just some joe shmoe from east nowhere.
Point number two:
photomom04: Can I add something here? The number one way to tell if something is a scam is if they are asking you to pay to work for them. If there are ANY fees such as a one time membership fee, a fee for "training materials" etc., it is probably a scam.
Then McDonalds, Starbucks, Subway all must be scams. To own a franchise in any one of these, and any other, one must pay franchise costs, and those are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Wow! Big Scams, huh?
An MLM or non-MLM work at home opportunity by comparrison requires next to no cash outlay, and it's a scam? I don't think so. Vishal, i thought you were smarter than that. I have been very impressed with your posts, and others in here. I cannot believe what i have just read.
I suggest you all read my thread, "your biz is a scam" in the Oh my God, network marketing section of this forum. Network marketing, another name for MLM.
I suppose someone will boot me out of here for raising a fuss over this. But i could not sit idly by and allow those kinds of comments to go unresponded to. They are just absurd.
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RayvinAndRob
Forums Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 195
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#207 · Posted: 29 May 2008 17:34
Vishal P. Rao: The first thing you should do to avoid being a victim of a work at home scam is to become aware of types of opportunities that are most commonly scams. Here, we discuss some examples of such work at home scams, so that the next time you come across such a sale letter or advertisement, you will be well-equipped to differentiate between the genuine and fake ones.
MPHayes,
The quote above is from Vishal. Notice the stated purpose of why he is giving expamples of work-at-home scams, MLM included: He says it's to help you "differentiate between the genuine and fake ones."
I am a network marketer - and proud of it. I love the MLM company I'm with. It's one of the genuine ones Vishal mentions. That's not to say Vishal endorses the company I'm with; he may have no idea what it is.
To me, he acknowledges the fact there are fake ones and real ones out there and encourages people to be savvy and well-informed.
That's how I - an MLMer - see Vishal's post.
Rob Nyte
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PMHayes
Forums Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 129
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#208 · Posted: 30 May 2008 00:28
Vishal P. Rao: Well, besides these two work at home scams, there are many more baits lying there for you. So, here we give a list of some of them. * Email processing � Just read emails and get paid $3/per mail. * Craft assembly for $600 a week. You have to call them and they send you a pamphlet with 100 companies to call, these companies will ask you to send $20 or $30 just to get the start up kit. * Multilevel marketing (MLM)
I beg to differ. It clearly states that besides those two there other baits out there, then a list is given, in which MLM is listed. He is not speaking in favor, rather he is including our industry in a list of things to beware of. read this in context and you will see what i mean.
I am proud of my MLM company, we are doing very well with it. I am tired of the industry as a whole being bashed by people with influence. Yes, there are bad companies out there. But all of them are not.
Mitch
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RayvinAndRob
Forums Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 195
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#209 · Posted: 30 May 2008 22:21
Mitch,
Maybe you're right. I don't want to believe it but I think you're right. I re-read Vishal's post again a little slower this time and I can see your point quite clearly. It does appear Vishal lumped MLM in with work-at-home scams. He posted it back in 2005. I wonder if he's changed his mind since then?
Vishal? I had no idea!
Thanks for speaking up Mitch.
Rob
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Vishal P. Rao
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1298
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#210 · Posted: 31 May 2008 06:53
My apologies Mitch and Rob!!! I believe I must have meant Pyramid schemes. I have edited the post.
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RayvinAndRob
Forums Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 195
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#211 · Posted: 31 May 2008 11:58
Thank You, Vishal.
I'm so glad you changed that.
Perhaps a good question to ask now is, "What is a pyramid scheme?"
And can MLM/Network Marketing be fairly categorized as one?
Rob Nyte
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Vishal P. Rao
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1298
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#212 · Posted: 31 May 2008 23:34
From Wikipedia...
A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves the exchange of money primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, usually without any product or service being delivered. It has been known to come under many guises. Some famous examples including the massive Albanian Pyramid Schemes of 1996 were technically not Pyramid schemes but Ponzi schemes.
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RayvinAndRob
Forums Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 195
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#213 · Posted: 1 Jun 2008 01:03
Apparently many MLM / Network Marketing companies, while having a product or service to sell to the end consumer, have a "non-sustainable business model."
But I haven't personally verified the truth of that statement. How many network marketing companies would I have to evaluate in order to confirm or disconfirm that?
However, it seems to me the general consensus is to accept the famous statistic we read everywhere, namely, 97% of network marketers fail within the first year in business.
I'm not sure where that statistic comes from but assuming it were true that's not an encouraging sign for the network marketing industry.
While we may never know for sure what the real reasons are for this apparent lack of success in the network marketing industry, we can be fairly confident it has something to do with the business models of some MLM companies.
In most cases, the distributors of such companies are forced to recruit people into their businesses because they cannot sell their company's products. They are either too expensive to buy at the retail price or you have to sign up as a 'Preferred Customer' or some such hoop-a-lah just to purchase something.
When people see they can buy the products for much cheaper at wholesale than at retail, they quickly realize it makes sense to become an affiliate. That way they can get their products and perhaps earn a little money on the side.
At least that's their hope but, quite often we hear stories of how people are not able to earn money from their recruiting efforts or from their sales efforts either for that matter.
In fact, the problem with most MLM business models is they require you to recruit too many people into your business before you start seeing a substantial profit, sometimes numbering in the thousands.
I can think of one very well-known company in particular that's been around for a few decades that requires its distributors to recruit about 2800 people on a monthly autoship of 100 bonus points of volume in order to earn $10,000 per month.
It takes a special kind of person to accomplish that. He or she may be very good at sales and a naturally persuasive and charismatic individual who has no problem building a downline that large all by him/herself.
But most people are not able to duplicate that kind of effort. It means being a salesperson and such and most of us don't want to be a salesperson.
I wonder if these 'naturals' fall into the top 3% who seem to succeed in the industry?
Nah, it couldn't be! That wouldn't leave room for all those MLMers out there are succeeding without having to be a salesperson and without having to recruit thousands of people.
Believe it or not, there are people who are earning $10,000 per month in their network marketing business from both retailing and recruiting. And how do they do it?
They don't actively chase leads. They don't bother their warm market about joining their business. They don't pay very much (if anything) for advertising.
No, they do network marketing the way it should be done because they are in what I call a 'Five Pillars Company.' These are five things a network marketing company absolutely MUST have in place for anybody to have success with it.
I've written about these 'Five Pillars' many times elsewhere. But there are, again,
1. Company Management Experience and Integrity.
2. Right Timing of the Company in an Industry that has a Proven Growth Potential, such as the wellness industry.
3. A Remarkable and Consumable Line of Products.
4. A Compensation Plan that Pays its Part-Timers. They Make Up 95% of the Work-at-Homers. Only 5% Do It as a Full Time Business.
5. A Duplicatable system aka Method of Operation which is easy to follow for the masses.
So besides these five criteria for choosing a legitimate company, there must also be a business model which allows affiliates to both retail their products at a reasonable profit and recriut others who want to do the same, without having to become a "sponsor monster superstart space commander salesperson, rank 9."
Rob Nyte
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alasycia
Forums Member
Joined: 4 May 2008
Posts: 287
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#214 · Posted: 3 Jun 2008 04:45
Multi level marketing seems to be a bit of a "hot potato" on forum discussions, with its detractors and supporters getting very upset.
Firstly - remember it is only a sales/marketing system for a company that produces a product or service. If you dont like selling - directly or through people you introduce to a company - then maybe MLM is not for you. Because without product sales on multilevels or one level - there is no business.
It is NOT the same as a franchise. A franchise is a one level operation where you buy rights to sell company products under THEIR name and with their format - Macdonald's being a good example. And quality control and corporate identity is a big issue in franchising.
In multi level marketing - you are an independant contractor/distributor and often without any contract either. Whether the company keeps consistent controls on the WAY in which their products are sold - depends on the company.
Regrettably there are many who do not do this and as a result we get the heavy pressure motivation selling in place of good sales training. And many of the companies are aware of this and are quite happy with the situation. no names mentioned, but some of the "training talks" for MLMs are based on "belief" and all sorts of nonsense instead of good solid training in promoting the companies product. another reason why it has such a bad name.
Multi level selling is only legal if earnings come primarily from sales and comissions on them. If referall comssions from anything other than product or service sales form a major part of your earnings - then then the business is trading illegally in nearly all countries in the world. It is a pyramid. and a big red flag.
If there is no real product or service for sale - then you are in a ponzi -and run like h*ll. This kind of MLM seems to be on offer all over the internet.
As a business model, companies that use MLM usally have their products at a higher price than those who do not have to pay so many levels of comission - and I thinbk this is often the reason for failure for many people selling in them. The stuff is generally very expensive - good or not.
At the end of the day, MLM or not - I agree with the comments made here.
You do not expect to pay a company to sell their products - and 90% of online opps are sales opps. And you should expect a reasonable start up cost if you are starting a home business, but to pay an ongoing fee, doesnt make much business sense unless you are getting something tangible in exchange.
And of course watch out for the red flags. Would you do business offline with someone who met you in a bar, with no name and no business address and no way of contacting them apart from a contact form on a website? NO you wouldnt. So dont do it online and then wonder why it has gone sunny side up!
Reputable businesses online should be identifiable, with real traceable owners with real names and addresses and proper terms and conditions of business and real products or services that are properly financed to be sustainable, not something that disapears one day when you switch on your computer, leaving no forwarding address! LOL
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Homeboy
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Joined: 4 Feb 2008
Posts: 219
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#215 · Posted: 10 Jun 2008 10:03
One thing that always baffles me with MLMs is - how on earth do normal people get thousands of people to sign up for something? It seems an extraordinarily difficult task even for experienced salespeople, and yet this performance level is typically required before seeing any decent ROI with these things.
I think this is why most people label MLMs as scams, because they're usually advertised as being so easy your grandmother could do it. Etc. etc. They generally disguise the fact that there's a LOT of work to be done...
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RayvinAndRob
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Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 195
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#216 · Posted: 17 Jun 2008 21:18
Hey Homeboy,
Sponsor monsters are extraordinary people. But ordinary people can't duplicate them. The reason you believe you must match their performance level to have success in the MLM industry is because that's what you've been taught by them. And that's what they've been taught by their upline sponsors.
We're here to tell you, Homeboy, that there's a better way. There's a way to do network marketing without having to do anything extraordinary. It's a way that any average person can follow.
It requires only 10 SIMPLE steps. They are not easy steps to take but they ARE simple, Homeboy, if you are coachable and teachable.
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msmoney008
Forums Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 3
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#217 · Posted: 18 Jun 2008 14:23
Hi Every Body , Can any one give me the idea about "Method Reports LLC". Any sort of Review or anybody has tried it . Thank U
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rcarney6
Forums Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 37
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#218 · Posted: 18 Jun 2008 16:49
"I agree with a lot of posts here in that there are a lot of internet scams out there, but not all programs you have to pay for are scams. If you wrote a digital book that teaches internet marketing, would you give it away for free? I certainly would not!"
Yes, some products offering lefitimate information will charge for their books or materials. This is like geting books about business from book stores.
When you get good information, you have to act upon it.
The key is to "read between the lines," and realize that it is legitimate to pay for information, but to be careful of some of the upsells.
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tbadly
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Joined: 4 Jun 2008
Posts: 23
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#219 · Posted: 18 Jun 2008 18:27
Just to reiterate a couple of things said above, MLM companies are just like other companies in that they sell products to survive. They've just espoused a different marketing (hence the term network or multi-level marketing) strategy that involves paying commissions to distributors instead of advertising dollars to magazines, billboards, internet firms, television, etc. If you enjoy marketing (and that includes sales), then MLM is likely to be a good fit for you.
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PennyWise
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Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 22
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#220 · Posted: 21 Jun 2008 02:11
If you wrote a quality eBook, why not give it away?
Number 1: Quality is remarkable
Number 2: Whatever your topic, you can include useful Ads
Remarkable. Kind of sounds like Re-Marketing doesn't it? Unless this eBook revolutionized the world as we know it (which, by the way, it doesn't) I wouldn't tell anyone beyond my dog lying next to me. If I had to pay for it, I promise you I wouldn't even tell her.
Any consumer-minded information can have more resources (hint: ads.)
A positive cycle to look for, in an endeaver to make money:
1. Customer's HAPPY (well informed and knows what to do next.)
2. Advertiser's are happy because the customer wants them.
3. You're happy because the Advertiser pays you!
1. Customer's HAPPY...
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