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PMHayes
Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 129
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# Posted: 25 May 2008 06:06
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Ok Y'all, I don't know about you, but i truly am fed up with this business of misinformed people, self righteous pundits calling my business and many others as well, a scam! Someone needs to take a stand for the truth. So here goes. Let's first examine the definition of the word scam:
1. Scam (noun) dishonest scheme: a scheme for making money by dishonest means
2. Scam (verb) trick somebody: to obtain money or other goods from somebody by dishonest means
This post is for those of you who are seeking answers, seeking a good business opportunity, and you have come here to learn about our industry, MLM, and examine different opportunities. You have heard the "S" word and it has you scared. Or perhaps you are new to MLM and you are getting bludgeoned by all the whiners, nay sayers, self professed experts, etc. and you are not sure how to answer the accusations.
So here's the deal, seems to me the operative word here is dishonesty! In other words, lying, making fraudulent promises or claims to get people to trust and open their wallets, the intent of which is to take their money and deliver nothing but thin air! In earlier days we would call this a con artist. Now Dishonesty, that's a strong word, it implies intent, planned action, with but one goal, one's own gain at another's expense.
Yes, there are scams out there, people, companies, systems intent on making a lot of money by dishonest means, fraudulent practices, etc. One comes to mind, one we have all more than likely experienced. You get this email claiming you have won some lottery somewhere or someone has died and left you a bunch of money and if you will supply your details they will rush your money to you. You are to receive a check, a rather large sum, deposit it, and then write out a small check to the organization who declared you a beneficiary or lottery winner, to cover some of their expenses, or some other reason. A few days later your account is frozen, you are in a negative balance, and have to repay the bank. This theme plays out over and over, different stories, different reasons for which you are suddenly very wealthy, and people fall for it every day. Now pay attention class, THAT IS A SCAM!!!! Remember, "dishonest means?"
It's not a scam is when a particular MLM's compensation plan isn't as good in actuality as it is on paper. it's not a scam is when people fail at a given business because they didn't do their part by following the training of their sponsor, or because they are lazy and want to make the money without putting forth the effort. It's not even a scam when people don't understand the claims of a given business opportunity or compensation plan and when things don't pan out the way they thought they should they don't make as much money as they wanted to make. It's not a scam when an MLM requires some up front money, membership fees, product purchase, whatever. Those are not attempts to make money from people by dishonest or fraudulent means. You may not agree with a given companies policies, but that does not make them a scam. Don't join, fine, but don't accuse them of being a scam.
I am in The Berry Tree. Great company, great compensation plan, great products. Is it perfect? NO. Is it for everyone? Certainly not. Our business is under fire, lately from self professed gurus out there who don't have their facts straight, claiming we are misleading prospects into thinking they can get in, make money, with no effort of their own, due to "spillover" from upline sponsorship efforts. That is, for lack of a more sophisticated word, "hogwash!" We make no such claims. They have their facts mixed up, and are confusing two completely different concepts. Yes, you do get "spillover" and it can improve your group volume, and help you reach bonus pools. No, there is no free lunch, you still have to build a business, you still have to work for it. If you have heard claims of scam, or fraud, regarding The Berry Tree, bring them to me, ask me, i will answer the accusations with the truth. Yes, that's what i said, truth. Not dishonesty.
If you have heard those same or other accusations regarding another MLM or business represented in this or other forums, or even about MLM in general (you know MLM is just a pyramid scheme, after all or so they say) do yourself a favor. Go to the source. Ask a person in that company, or call the company yourself. But don't just believe what the "nay sayers" and detractors, are saying, no matter how informed they claim to be, without doing some research on your own! Bring those claims to me or some of the other honest and hard working people in this forum and let us examine them and expose them for what they are, a load of you know what!
Respectfully submitted,
Mitch
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westfam11
Member
Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Posts: 430
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# Posted: 25 May 2008 08:52
Reply
PMHayes,
Great post. It took me awhile to find the right business
for me and I did lose some money on some other
businesses but they were not scams, they just were
not right for me, I just didn't know it until I tried.
I have learned ALOT and now if someone asks
me about scams, pyramids, schemes, etc. my answers
are a lot different than when I began. When I first
started my home business I used to explain, reassure, etc.
that my business wasn't a scam, etc. but now I know
when they are asking these kinds of questions they
really are not yet ready to be in a home business. They
need to do more research on their own and then when
they know the difference between a scam and a
legitimate business they will be ready to forge ahead.
That way I am spending my time with the serious
prospects that know at least the difference and
aren't asking those types of questions anymore.
Becky
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1177
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# Posted: 25 May 2008 09:38
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Interesting thread - yes, I am sure we have all been asked or told that statement, but I have to agree with Becky... it's usually from people that are looking for an online 'job' and they don't yet know how the home business industry works...
And that's okay - it took me awhile to wrap my brain around it and I am still learning a lot every day!
I just love the fact that we have the ability to truly help the ones that are ready to make a change and get out of the rat race of their financial situation... I absolutely love network marketing!!
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CSGWAHM
Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 273
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# Posted: 25 May 2008 10:40
Reply
Very nicely said mountainmom! I'm with you, I like that we can help the people who are truly looking to make a change. It's a fun and exciting business!
Becky put it nicely too about spending time with serious prospects who know the differece between scams and real home based businesses. I know I've tried explaining it before, but they still have doubts and they're not the ones I want to work with, really.
Great thread!
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Rob Chrin
Member
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 14
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# Posted: 25 May 2008 11:03
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I agree that many people will use a word such as scam because they were not able to get the results that they expected. And I agree that many times that people don't get results because they either don't put in the necessary time or effort to do what is necessary or don't follow the required steps.
Hopefully as people read posts on this forum they realize that to make money online either as a job or a business requires work, but that there are strategies to help in the process. It's not necessary to re-invent the wheel and you don't have to start with no help. There are many great opportunities out there that allow you to learn what it is that you need to do to be successful.
I agree with mountainmom5 too, it's great to be able to help others to succeed in this industry. And hopefully people realize that you can help people succeed without "scamming" them.
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PMHayes
Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 129
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# Posted: 25 May 2008 16:20 · Edited by: PMHayes
Reply
Yes, i agree, mountainmom. My intent was not cry and whine, not at all. I am hoping newbies who will come in here, or people who are investigating MLM as a way of life, and that's what it is, a way of life, will see the difference between a dishonest practice and a true business which will have it's ups and downs. I was not so much commenting on people i have talked to who have made those accusations, as on people on You Tube or My Space blasting out their venom for anyone and everyone to read, or hear, or both. Those peopel are doing us harm.
One cannot stop them, the internet is a giant platform which allows people to pretty much rant and rave about anything they chose. But we can arm people with THE TRUTH so that they can then decide for themselves what is a lie and what is real. My hope is that people will come in here and to other good forums and get educated, informed, armed with TRUTH. I am reminded of an old story about bank tellers. They are not taught how to recgnoze counterfit money by studying counterfit money. They learn what real money looks like by handling real money, so that when a counterfit bill crops up, they will recognize it.
I had a similar aim in mind, here. Explose lies by presenting truth. That's an age old practice and wisdom that works. Just read Proverbs.
Mitch
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1177
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# Posted: 25 May 2008 16:35
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PMHayes: My hope is that people will come in here and to other good forums and get educated, informed, armed with TRUTH
I agree and you started a good thread here - I actually send a lot of people to this site as I feel it has a lot of really good information to dig thru...
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freecashhappens
Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 41
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# Posted: 25 May 2008 19:07
Reply
Just because you don't make money on a project means it's a scam. Most people quit before they see any money anyway. I have been involved in projects that haven't turned a profit, and that does not mean their scams. Good information. MLM's are very profitable and worth while ventures to the right people. Some will always fail. It's called multi-level MARKETING. Some folks forget the last word. MLM's are not scams. While some have way too much hype, their not scams.
I took awhile to find the right type of projects for me. I promote only programs that have benefit to all involved parties. I think if people took more time to look and learn about what kind of programs they're getting involved in that would help out. Not everybody does their research and then it's not what they thought it was going to be and then their upset and calling everybody in the program a scam artist.
There are some con artists out there. We all need to be careful. I think if we pay attention to what we get involved in that is going to help us out tremendously.
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PMHayes
Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 129
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# Posted: 25 May 2008 20:52 · Edited by: PMHayes
Reply
Good comment, Freecash. There seem to two or three basic types of "nay sayers" or "scam cryers" out there.
1. People who for one reason or another have failed in MLM, Online marketing, etc.
2. People who want to bring legitimatate opportunities down, so they can draw prospects to their business, instead.
3. Self-appointed "scam police" who take it upon themselves to blast out against anything that smacks of MLM or Network Marketing, so-called "pyramid schemes," etc. MLM is not pyramid, by the way, another topic for another post, another time. LOL!
All three are capable of doing us harm, but it's that third group, the "Internet Sherriffs" that concern me the most. These folks are highly motivated, have an agenda (our complete distruction) and are willing to use whatever means they have at their disposal to bring us down. They disagree with us philosophically, and they dislike us immensely! they feel the need to "protect" everyone from our malicious marketing schemes. They are usually completely misinformed about the ins and outs of the business they are trying to attack. They rarely have their facts straight. BUT the average prospect out there who knows even less than they do, about MLM or a particular opportunity, can be swayed by their rhetoric rather easily.
The first group's "sour grapes" stories don't carry much weight, especially when it's apparent they failed, not due to problems with the opportunity, but due instead to their own inablitiy or failure to do the work and follow the plan set out by their sponsor and upline.
The second group discredit themselves, at least in the eyes of anyone who is smart enough to recognize their "make me look good by bringing other businesses down" approach. The average prospect can usually see through the smoke screens.
The only weapons we have against such propaganda are THE TRUTH, and OUR INTEGRITY. So, be honest when you are talking to prospects. If you don't know an answer, tell them you don't know, but you will find out and get back with them. If you are new to MLM, not making any money yet, don't lie, don't "fake it till you make it," that practice will only bring you harm. Just be honest and straight forward with people, and tell the truth, no, live the truth. It's what you are that attracts people to you and your business opportunity, not what you say!
Ok, getting down from soapbox, now.
Mitch
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SteveM30
Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2008 12:07
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Unfortunately, anyone who is new to mlm and gets ignored, or not properly trained, by their upline tends to see the whole business as a scam.
The best way to do your part in restoring the reputation of this truly wonderful industry is to take good care of your downline. Train and inspire!
-Steve
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cricfan
Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 35
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2008 17:39
Reply
some real good info shared here...totally agree...
anybody can succeed at MLM or any other home business...the difference is, there are posers & the doers...
the posers, no matter what you teach them will fail because they didn't implement what their upline taught them (given they were taught the right business building principles)
remember this, you can be successful at any online business, the key is to learn how to be a marketer & have a system in place that your team members can follow & duplicate the results...
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1177
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2008 22:13
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cricfan: have a system in place that your team members can follow & duplicate the results
You are so right....I know now that the reason I failed in so many endeavors that I did earlier was because I am NOT a salesperson - and that was the only way that network marketing used to be done.
There are some companies that still use those methods - you know...if it breathes, walks and is within 3 feet it is a prospect for your business....make a list of your top hundred friends, family and warm market...(all I ever had was a frozen market!)...if you can't convince them, get your upline on the line.... etc, etc....
But now with systems in place where new members can plug in and follow.... without their family ever knowing what they are up to, it makes network marketing much more friendly and appealing.
The only people I have contact with about my business now are the ones that come to me - and they are from all over the country, not just my town - how cool is that!
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ibuzzmentor
Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 60
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# Posted: 25 Jun 2008 00:25
Reply
Yes great post. Anyone can make money with any legit oppty out there . It is up to that person though to go through the proper learning curve and grow into the business. So many people are looking for the fast riches that they then scream scam when it doesnt happen.
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Sonni
Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 340
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# Posted: 25 Jun 2008 11:32
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When I first decided that I wanted to try internet marketing I bought the Average Joe Income Package. I knew nothing then(3 weeks ago) and not much more now. Anyway when I started watching the videos I didn't understand what he was doing, he wasn't thorough and a lot of the material was dated. I had to fight a little bit to get my money back but I did get it back. I thought at first it was a scam but after I did much research I figured out it wasn't a scam but that it wasn't for me.
He had promised a support system and to help if we had problems, he never did that. All emails to him came back as invalid. I feel like the ajip could work for some people who have some experience and can figure out how to do it however a lot of the material really is dated. I must have a support system because I know I can't figure it out on my own. Therefore I'm going to join with WA because in my research it seems like the best fit for me.
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tbadly
Member
Joined: 4 Jun 2008
Posts: 23
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# Posted: 25 Jun 2008 17:09
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Just do your research and it won't be an issue. And if people remember high school classes and writing research papers, research involves finding the source of information, not other people regurgitations of a source (that's called hearsay in court lingo). If you've done your due diligence you likely won't get "scammed".
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cupbucket
Member
Joined: 7 Jun 2008
Posts: 226
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2008 02:49
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There are many that will say that something is a scam just because they were too dam stupid or downright lazy to actually make it work. Then when it doesn't work, they blame their failure on anything but their own incompetence.
If you have a legit biz, then to hell with what some ass hole has to say about it. Let them moan and complain. If they can't do what's necessary, tell them to get out of the way and let those that can through!
Harsh...perhaps. But true.....you agree?
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SFerber
Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 10
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2008 00:55
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Great post!
I recently heard a great short video training on the P word. It discussed NOT going into the story of why your biz or my biz is not one. It simply said...when someone asked... is this a pyramid aka scam simply state. No. Why is that what you are looking for? If so I can not help you.
I also like realizing that if someone is rickety like that after hearing all the information and having the facts laid out that it is true they are not ready for a biz. I have learned to EASILY and gladly release them back into the water.
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WARRANTIES4LESS
Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 221
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2008 12:53
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PMHayes: 1. People who for one reason or another have failed in MLM, Online marketing, etc. 2. People who want to bring legitimatate opportunities down, so they can draw prospects to their business, instead. 3. Self-appointed "scam police" who take it upon themselves to blast out against anything that smacks of MLM or Network Marketing, so-called "pyramid schemes," etc. MLM is not pyramid, by the way, another topic for another post, another time. LOL!
Well Stated, especially #3 lol These are the biggest scams in my opinion, people who think they know it all and label all MLM's as scams or pyramids.
No doubt, there are plenty of true scams, but you can't paint the whole industry with one brush which is what the scam police try to do.
The biggest joke is when they label a company a scam because of a distributor who may or may not had been involved in a former company which collapsed. If we were to take their advice, we would not be able to join any company for they have all had their fair share of so called scammers. I judge a company by the owners, not distributors.
Wealth Without Health is Worthless
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