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RayvinAndRob
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Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 195
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2008 16:18
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Imagine this:
Human Resources hires you for that job you applied for. Fantastic!
It's your first day and it's time to meet the boss.
You ask her, "So what can I do to really help this company move forward?
"Hmm," she says, "just think positive thoughts, work on your attitude and your posture, have a strong belief in yourself, set some goals and get motivated!
So you do all of this and one month later the company goes bankrupt!
What do you think? Is it because your thoughts weren't positive enough? Your attitude stunk and your posture could have been better? You didn't have a strong enough belief in yourself? Your goals weren't exactly on target and you weren't motivated enough?
Or could it be something else? Like maybe the company's management lacked integrity and experience? Or maybe the company's timing was behind the current trend? Or perhaps the products were a complete flop? Maybe the business model was doomed to fail right from the get go? Or maybe the whole darn system was designed poorly and it collapsed?
My question is, Can one succeed with a bad business model if one simply has a good attitude, thinks positive thoughts, has good posture, etc., etc.?
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web20mentor
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Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 73
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2008 17:08
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The company won't, but the individual will. By staying in his positive and expectant vibration he will most certainly attract a better position with a better company. No exceptions.
Now some people will cry and say "oh that darn company...now I am not ever going to make it". Not me.
I would consider it a blessing and move on in eager anticipation of where I could apply my new found mindset KNOWING FULL WELL that I was on the cusp of something great in my life.
Let me know if you have any other questions on attraction and being positive. I am considered an expert at both.
Danny Arrington
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RayvinAndRob
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Posts: 195
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2008 17:20
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Excellent answer. And what would you say a good business opportunity absolutely must have in place for average people to succeed?
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web20mentor
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Posts: 73
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2008 17:48
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1. Integrity in the leadership
2. A system that provides overwhelming support even at the most basic levels of development
3. A subconscious mind/prosperity mind development program for people to plug into. Greatest program in the world won't help most people. Sad but true. Got to fix the subconscious before a program even matters. It's like being a terrible golfer and then buying the worlds greatest golf clubs. It won't help.
If you want to change what's on the outside, you got to change whats on the inside.
4. If it's an MLM it must have a solid product that is used, in my opinion, with or without the MLM setup.
5. An obscene compensation plan and a way to earn money quickly.
That's my short list. How about you?
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RayvinAndRob
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Posts: 195
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2008 18:30
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Yup, I agree, Danny.
Here's what we always say about MLM opportunities in particular:
1. The company's management team must be composed of currently successful leaders who have the highest level of personal integrity and who have proven themselves in the field. In other words, they have to have been there and done that. A hired Fortune 500 CEO with experience in traditional business is okay but somebody who has honed their own skills and know what it's like to do battle with themselves in the modern-day online / offline MLM battlefield is, in my opinion, much better equipped to lead in a specialized sense.
2. It is crucial that the company be strategically positioned and poised in front of the trends currently developing in the global market. If the company gets involved in a dying fad, then the distributors will have to work much harder and longer to begin seeing any profit. It may not even be possible to profit in some cases. For instance, the long distance telephone service industry is all but dead and gone. You can make phone calls for free now or for next to nothing. The best industries for a company to get involved with at the moment are probably nutritional supplements and energy drinks given the volume of babyboomer retirees. They want to feel yougn and healthy again.
3. So the line of products must be remarkable enough to grab their attention. They must do what they are designed to do. And they should be, as you said, products that people would buy even if there was no business opportunity attached.
4. Since 95% of MLMers work their home-based businesses on a part time basis while they continue to go to their regular jobs, then the company must have a compensation plan that pays the part timers well enough to make it all worth their while. It must allow them to earn enough for things like car payments, mortgage payments, credit card payments, vacations, new wardrobes, cool toys for the family and for the kids, maybe a cottage, whatever. These people need to have that extra income or they won't stay long. The compensation plan must also, of course, pay the full timers an unlimited income for their mansions and Ferraris, their six-month-long vacations in the tropics twice-a-year, you know what I mean.
5. The company must have a simple duplicatable system in place that trains new distributors and that attracts prospects and converts them into customers and distributors.
You mentioned above, "A subconscious mind/prosperity mind development program for people to plug into." Yes, absolutely! It should be part of the system.
Thank You Danny. I love how you always stress, give more in use value than people expect.
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klwalker
Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 1
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# Posted: 25 Jul 2008 13:01
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That is true. I almost got sucked into one not too long ago....
Fortunately, I am working with a lot better team now.
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Escalade
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# Posted: 1 Aug 2008 00:02
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I'm not sure if you guys have heard of it yet, but there is a new business building designed to significantly reduce the failure rate in the mlm/network marketing industry.
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MrWizard
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Joined: 2 Aug 2008
Posts: 11
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# Posted: 2 Aug 2008 16:14
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http://awf.the7greatliesofnetworkmarketing.com/
This is what started my search for a top of the line On-line Business.
I spent hours debating with in my self why havent My wife and I succeeded in Business, either MLM other otherwise.
The e-book answered some questions but created more. And yes it tuns into a sales pitch so take it as you like. I am not an affiliate with them any longer, I could not use a tactic that begins by blashing the very market they are trying to promote.
It will lead you to several other sources that can bring you oppertunities as well. We are in a freeze mode now with our main company.
So im here to share my input as I have nothing but time on my hands instead of promoting our great service.
Thanks
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RayvinAndRob
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Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 195
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2008 01:17
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Mr.Wizard,
Thanks for your input here. Anne Sieg's book, 'The 7 Great Lies of Network Marketing' is a clever marketing scheme. The information therein is nothing new or surprising. It's a re-hash and a regurgitation of what our mentor has been saying for over a decade. Those who fall for Anne's scheme will get frustrated and, if they're smart, quit. It's exactly as you say:
MrWizard: The e-book answered some questions but created more. And yes it tuns into a sales pitch so take it as you like.
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happywife
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 1104
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2008 22:29
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RayvinAndRob: Thanks for your input here. Anne Sieg's book, 'The 7 Great Lies of Network Marketing' is a clever marketing scheme. The information therein is nothing new or surprising. It's a re-hash and a regurgitation of what our mentor has been saying for over a decade. Those who fall for Anne's scheme will get frustrated and, if they're smart, quit. It's exactly as you say:
To be fair, isn't it the goal of all marketing schemes to be clever? Of course, they should be honest too and genuinely help people.
I have to consider myself a somewhat unbiased opinion since I have had no MLM background prior to hearing of Anne and her 7 Great Lies and Renegade Marketing program. I bought the book and read it as I was considering getting into MLM.
I don't know exactly what your 'mentor' has been saying for the past decade, but there really isn't anything 'new' under the sun for any of us to say, is there? 
I think the main thing I got from the RM books is that you don't have to 'do MLM' the way it has always been done. You don't have to hound your family, friends, and everyone you come in contact with to try to build your own income.
The system is designed to encourage people to use the internet to reach people who are actually looking for and interested in what it is you are marketing in your MLM, whether it is health insurance, long distance services, nutritional products, or making money.
It is a lot easier and less stressful to market to those looking for what you are selling than trying to sell to a cold market who you just tend to annoy instead.
I don't mind when something turns into a sales page as long as I feel I will be getting value for money. Most people ARE marketing online in order to actually sell something. That isn't a problem if it is something of quality that you are looking to buy.
Anne Sieg is very successful at what she does and has helped many people become successful at what they do, too. It's not necessarily the exact same path that I'm going to take because it doesn't suit my purposes at the moment, but I can't knock her methods as they seem to be completely above board.
Just wanted to add my own 2 cents on the subject. 
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web20mentor
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2008 23:49
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Happywife,
Well put! You took the words out of my mouth. While I don't personally promote Ann's work, she is an amazing leader who DOES have cutting edge strategies....and WOW! is she ever successful!!!!
In Think and Grow Rich, Napolean Hill says "Success requires no explanations". Boy do I love Napolean Hill!
I am looking forward to what people say about my "MLM LEAD MACHINE" book and "marketing scheme" when it launches later this month! I hope people think it's as clever as Anns! I will know I am doing it right if they do!
I am sure it will have it's critics. But I am also sure that I will be way to busy to notice.
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fbl3ssingm
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Joined: 6 Aug 2008
Posts: 97
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2008 23:05
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Great inspiration! Thank you!
I'm thinking about dealing with ferrets. Dogs too... but for now, I have 5 ferrets and I have lots of pictures and videos. It's just that I am a little bit lazy. 
Now, what will be the best place to put the video/pics on and to make some income by doing this?
Thank you!
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happywife
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 1104
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2008 01:05
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fbl3ssingm: I'm thinking about dealing with ferrets. Dogs too... but for now, I have 5 ferrets and I have lots of pictures and videos. It's just that I am a little bit lazy. Now, what will be the best place to put the video/pics on and to make some income by doing this?
If keeping ferrets is something you enjoy, why not build a website about that subject? If you do a good job of it, you can steal a great deal of the market for yourself. Most people don't know how to build a high ranking website so you would be able to draw a lot of free traffic from the search engines.
You can use your pictures and videos on your own site. You can monetize with Google Adsense, affiliate programs and maybe even create some of your own products (maybe an e-book on breeding ferrets or some such thing).
Choose a niche and immerse yourself in it. Pretty soon you will be hailed as an expert in your field and people will come to YOUR site for anything that has to do with ferrets.
Something to consider...
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fbl3ssingm
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2008 03:30
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I think this is a great consideration. Good advice. My wife's crazy about ferrets!!!
What is a niche? Little bit confused with all this knowledge.
happywife: Choose a niche and immerse yourself in it. Pretty soon you will be hailed as an expert in your field and people will come to YOUR site for anything that has to do with ferrets.
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happywife
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 1104
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2008 03:53
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fbl3ssingm: What is a niche? Little bit confused with all this knowledge.
Oops! Sorry about that. Sometimes I forget that I didn't understand half the terms I use now every day. 
A niche is a topic or subject that your website is going to be all about. You don't want it to be too broad like "pets" because it would be too hard to compete in such a large field. You might even discover that "ferrets" is too broad after doing some research.
You may want to go with something like 'raising ferrets' or 'breeding ferrets' or a specific type of ferrets. I don't know ANYTHING about ferrets, so it is kind of difficult for me to say, of course.
If you look at my signature, you will see that I have two of my sites listed. One of them is on the niche topic of chocolate candy and the other is on the niche topic of parasites. They each cover a lot of different things relating to that topic, but they are related.
When you build a site of a couple of hundred pages and cover your subject thoroughly, you will become one of the main sites people go to when looking for info. on the subject. The more traffic you receive, the more money you will potentially make.
Does that help?
Blessings,
Angie
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web20mentor
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2008 08:57
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Did you know that between the term "Ferret" and "Ferrets", they get nearly 3,000 DAILY searches on the 3 main search engines?
And there is a ton of traffic to some long tail keywords also.
I use seobook.com and then go to "tools" and then go to "keyword suggestion tool" to do preliminary research.
But my point is that there is a very active market for the term.
Fun stuff!
Enjoy!
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fbl3ssingm
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2008 16:13
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How much does it cost to enroll with SEO?
web20mentor: I use seobook.com and then go to "tools" and then go to "keyword suggestion tool" to do preliminary research. But my point is that there is a very active market for the term.
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web20mentor
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2008 19:01
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What I described for you is one of their free tools.
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fbl3ssingm
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2008 21:46
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web20mentor: What I described for you is one of their free tools.
indeed...
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web20mentor
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2008 13:45
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I am going to repost the original message here since it seems to have "attracted" some off point responses:
So MLM has a 97% fail rate. Big Deal. So does online biz opportunity industry (affiliate programs like WealthMasters, liberty league, etc).
But why? (If you have failed at MLM, you don't get to answer here...we know you hate it and you want to make sure that everyone knows that your failure had nothing to do with your inability to gain enough mental leverage on yourself to do what was necessary to figure out an effective sales and recruiting approach...we have heard it 1,000,000 times already...we got it)
Regardless of how I feel about people's sudden lack of personal responsibility when it comes to failing at things, the sad fact remains that 97% are failing. So while I am not one to buy into people's excuse-making, I also know that the basic business model is pretty messed up if your getting results like that.
SO WHAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM in MLM????
It's very simple. MLM'ers have not learned how to stop CHASING DOWN THEIR TARGET MARKET! For that matter, they don't even know how to assess who their target market really is!
And even if someone does know how to define who their target market is, many will then go into that market with a big pile of business cards and their nice suit ready to put on a show:
"This company is 21 years old, we are debt free and we have THE GREATEST (insert your thing here) that has ever been in the market....AND we are creating 100 millionaires in the next 24 months! You should come to our meeting at (insert local cheese ball hotel) this Monday night! We have a guest speaker who was a (insert really crappy job here) and now he earns over XXXX per month!"
That is called "chasing". THAT is why you have your 97% fail rate.
Solution?
Learn to ADD MASSIVE USE VALUE TO YOUR MARKET. (first, you need to know who your target market is and where to find them)
Now, at first this can be difficult. But it's the difference between chasing a dream and being miserable doing it and having your dream chase you and having a blast.
Depending on the response to this post, I will do another one that will show you exactly what it means to add Massive Use Value.
I really hope that those that are still making the lists of their friends and family or just generally struggling (in ANY business) will pay attention.
Peace
Danny Arrington
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Smart25
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2008 18:13
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I agree with you Danny, Once you are very successful, then if your family and friends want to join your business, it's fine.
I twitter, Im following you.
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fbl3ssingm
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2008 23:10
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web20mentor: "This company is 21 years old, we are debt free and we have THE GREATEST (insert your thing here) that has ever been in the market....AND we are creating 100 millionaires in the next 24 months! You should come to our meeting at (insert local cheese ball hotel) this Monday night! We have a guest speaker who was a (insert really crappy job here) and now he earns over XXXX per month!"
Ha ha ha ha...
But everything you said is true. I have to agree with you. That is why I tend to request my refund for one of the affiliate programs system I got involved with, because I get lost in way too many steps that all seems to go in circle, and you know that a Circle will never have an end.
But, we'll try to stick on and do our best.
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brentw
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Joined: 1 Aug 2008
Posts: 17
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2008 00:06
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I'll bring up one counter-point:
I think for long-term growth of a business you
are dead on...you have to learn to attract
people to you.
However, you failed to mention the #1 reason
why most people quit MLM within 30 days:
They don't see a check!
Now, if you are taking someone brand new to
MLM and trying to teach them to market online,
it may take a while for them to see even the
slightest of results, much less enough for them
to make their money back.
Why?
Because the Internet is a land of anonymity, and
people like that. They can, for the most part, get
by with gathering info without really being known
outside of a name (real or not) and an email
address.
The fact is that many quit if they do not see results
in the first 30-60 days. That is a lot of teaching, working,
etc to get someone going with an attraction marketing
system.
And this is why the warm market is important.
For example, in my business, there is $400 in bonuses
plus residuals available for a new rep in their first
28 days. Many people simply are not going to "get it"
in enough time to make it happen (our team has found
some ways of short-cutting this process....but I'm
speaking as a whole for the industry).
A person, though, could step into their warm market
and generate some success, either through product
sales or some recruits. And its not always your
immediate warm market that will help you get there.
Dale Calvert recently posted on another forum the
importance of going through a process, and the
warm market is always the first step. It is the quickest
way to get things going.
Will they experience rejection in warm market?
Yes...but they will in attraction marketing too.
We simply have to train our new reps the reality,
past the excitement.
And while they are working their warm market,
which in my opinion should be funneled into
your marketing system (so they can see how
easy it is, if it really is, and how powerful it is),
and introduce them the same way.
Just my opinion...
Brent
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web20mentor
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2008 01:55 · Edited by: web20mentor
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Brent, great reply. A few things....
1. I have NEVER been rejected with my attraction approach. Not once. I don't pitch so I don't get rejected. I add massive value to those that reach out to me. People call me and say "Danny, when are you going to let me join?" I'm not joking.
Now, regarding the warm market point you made, my question would then be this:
Do we execute an attractive model on everyone except our family and friends? So we use a more aggressive (and less attractive and less authentic) approach with them because we need to make fast money to hold us over until we get clients that really want or need what we have????
I think you see the interior challenge I have with that. And when looked at with a bright light, as I have just done, you see it for what it is.
Oh, don't misunderstand. I do understand why people quit with no income. I actually posted about that very thing earlier today:
http://www.work-at-home-forum.com/5_9810_0.html
But there are ways to teach a newbie how to generate an immediate income...actually several streams of income....which also increases your value to your market without having to toss the integrity out the window.
That post also deals with the reality of the role that social media plays in MLM recruiting.
Thanks for the post!
Great stuff!
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jgaza
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Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 1
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# Posted: 16 Aug 2008 04:24
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Hi!
Have you write the post you said:
"Depending on the response to this post, I will do another one that will show you exactly what it means to add Massive Use Value."
it's the "how to do it" that most are interested of.
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narbundi
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Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 3
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2008 16:23
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An awesome forum thread Danny, I have learned a great deal from reading through it so thank you so much for posting it.
As you already know from our Goldmine days I am also an experienced practitioner of attraction marketing - in fact I used that technique long before it had that name for over 20 years as a freelance trainer and university lecturer. Was never out of work once and mostly had people queuing up for me to work with them.
Then the technique was often referred to as 'under-sell and over-deliver' meaning that there was never any chasing or hard-sell and I always gave more than was contracted to do for each client.
Hence by giving something that was unexpected and free who did they come back to for more work each time? Doing an extre fee 2 hours workshop cost me �250 but that often resulted in several �1000s worth of additional business so my CPA (cost per aquisition of each new contract) was tiny compared to many of my competitors.
And in many ways working online is no different from any other business (which, by the way have a similar failure rate) as many other people have said in this post.
In short, think of who you'd most like to work with and then become that person. Systems certainly are important and if designed well they should gradually take over more and more of the work for us giving us the leverage that allows us to pursue our chosen lifestyle.
For example, using social media effectively can attract targeted leads and traffic to us 24/7 and using other tools such as funded proposals like Magnetic Sponsoring can easily generate the cash-flow that all business owners need in order to keep going.
But at the end of the day as you say yourself so eloquently Danny, attracting people is just so much easier and more fun than chasing them. And as long as we maintain our integrity and respect those who seek our help we can create endless abundance for all who choose to make the effort.
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To access all my free online marketing resources including e-books, training videos, mastermind calls, one to one coaching calls and MP3 audios just fill in the simple form at:[url=http://www.supanovasuperstars.com]http://www.supanovasuperstars.com[/url
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fbl3ssingm
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Joined: 6 Aug 2008
Posts: 97
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2008 00:18
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narbundi: To access all my free online marketing resources including e-books, training videos, mastermind calls, one to one coaching calls and MP3 audios just fill in the simple form at:bla bla bla
what do you understand by giving things for FREE? IT seems that there's something that gets in contradiction with your saying, so... are you lying?
As per found on your site
"Supanova Training Programs
Discount offer until 01.10.08.
It's About Time $37
The Profit Project $37 "
Ridiculous... my own opinion, how people lie to each other. Again, Ridiculous.
If you want to make money, please don't step in my pocket with lies... it's not right.
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z2ac2k
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Joined: 2 Sep 2008
Posts: 14
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# Posted: 2 Sep 2008 16:27
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multi level marketing is a great marketing plan for a company and offers alot of potential for the sales person. i think that it is great! But it seems that everyone has been burned by mlm companies atleast once. so there for it seems no one has anything good to say about them. i think that there are 2 problems with mlm. first problem with most mlm companies is their products. its hard to sell something that you can buy for a third of the price at walmart or where ever. or energy drinks and my god how many loose weight live forever drinks can thier possible be on the market. the second thing is the sales people. first of all most are looking to get rich quick ( thats not going to happen). next most lack self motivation and an exellent work ethic. and last of all most people can not deal with rejection. no one will ever last at any type of sales if they cant deal with the to letter word no[u][/u] but really in all reality it is a numbers game. the law of large numbers is a good place to begin on that thought. but now you have failed because you were selling a bad product and you lacked the sales ability and workethic to succed and now all mlm strucktured business are bad. sorry for being so blunt and to the point but its the truth.
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traverus_travel
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# Posted: 3 Sep 2008 18:13
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mountainmom5: Amen! Our microwave society needs some crockpot mentality
I absolutely LOVE this saying! It is really true - too many people jump in - invest money and REFUSE TO WORK!
I don't know of any traditional 9-5 companies that would allow anyone to KEEP a J-O-B with that mentality, yet people flock to the industry with the pie in the sky, get rich quick or lottery mentality.
This is a PROFESSION. It needs to be treated as such. HARD WORK will help your success, not luck. well maybe a little of both.
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fbl3ssingm
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# Posted: 3 Sep 2008 20:22
Reply
hummm...
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