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Greg82
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Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 13
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# Posted: 24 Mar 2008 11:20
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Ok I am starting to see so many people making all these income claims. Throwing around so called "proof." bragging about how much they have made, flashing their "house" or their "car". It is getting out of control. What ever happened to being humble? First of all what difference does it make how much they made? Shouldn't you be concerned how much they are going to help you make? I cant tell you the number of top income earners I know that do NOTHING to help there team duplicate. The other problem is their team members naturally fell like they have to do what there fearless leader is doing. So they start to make these claims even if the results aren't true out of desperation. This is a huge problem and there are not very many people doing anything about it. I found this site were this guy goes may more in depth about it and talks about what we can do to help put a stop to it. www.incomeclaims.com is the website check it out. This guy really knows his stuff and brings up some great points.
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Greg Potter
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BillChechel
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Joined: 8 Jan 2008
Posts: 158
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# Posted: 24 Mar 2008 12:27
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I agree with you that income claims are getting out of control.
If you advertise an income claim, you need to be able to back it up with hard evidence. Thats why if you have a good upline, they should be able help you with that. If a new prospect needs a snapshot of a google checkout account, they should be able to provide that.
The company you are with should provide you with all the legal pitfalls to avoid. If not, you should have an attorney look over what you are doing as far as advertising any income claims.
If you are looking into a new company, remember these are just "claims" of an income that is possible. They are not average income amounts.
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Breanne
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# Posted: 24 Mar 2008 12:51
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I don't believe that it is the best way to lead your business opportunity with anyway. Many people do make outrageous claims to try to convince people to join their business. I think if they really understood what most people want when they are first getting started in a business then they would be more successful and so would their team.
I think that when most people start a business they are going into it to make money, but it will be very difficult for them if they don't know how to work the business. So I believe that the mentor or sponsor is the most important part, and if they are willing to hold their hand through the process at least to get them started so they can begin making an income faster.
Making outrageous claims is a major sign of desperation....unless they really are making that kind of money and then should be easy for them to prove if needed.
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Greg82
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Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 13
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# Posted: 24 Mar 2008 16:37
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Even if they are making that kind of money and can provide proof I still think it is wrong for various resons. On top of that how easy it is it photoshop or fake proof? I could show you "proof" thats I made a lot more this year than I actually have. EVEN still even if its real I still dont see the point? What does how much you have made have to do with me and how much I am going to make?
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Greg Potter
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BillChechel
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Joined: 8 Jan 2008
Posts: 158
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# Posted: 26 Mar 2008 12:15
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I agree that income claims should not be the first thing you look at. You should really be focused on the product, business system and commission plan. If you choose a company strong in all those categories you will have no problem making a significant income.
Be realistic though. No one is going to be attracted to a business where there isnt the potential to replace their income and/or financially set themselves free. By showing the potential of a business is not a problem as long as the new person understands that the income claims are not typical and what the average home business owner is earning, but that it is possible to earn what the income claim states.
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Greg82
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# Posted: 26 Mar 2008 12:48
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Bill,
You have a excellent point. I agree that you want to get in a company where there is potential to make a lot of money. One way of seeing that is looking at what others before you have done. Looking at how well the product is actually selling.
With that said another way I could find that out is looking at the total sales that the COMPANY made the year before to see if there is a market for the product.
I don't personally care what the individuals have made though because If i am good at what I do and a quick learner I will make more. Why would I want to limit my self If i could do better?
On the other hand I may not be good at the business, I may not have good mentors, So i might not get as good of results as the person before me.
My point is individuals incomes have nothing at all to do with me or you. Its simply fluff. What you should look for is content not fluff.
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Greg Potter
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malibumentor
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 342
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2008 19:31 · Edited by: malibumentor
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When somebody makes income claims basically what I see
is a guy trying to impress me.
Yawn.
What impresses me is the guy who shoots straight and doesn't
puff himself up. Furthermore, as a salesman and marketer
its a good idea to focus on the prospect and his/her needs,
not upon your own need to impress people.
Kapish?
This stuff is proven in scientific market testing. People don't
respond nearly as well to advertising that puffs up the seller
as they do to ads which show the benefits to the buyer.
How to turn your marketing around is a big topic. Its
something I emphasize when I coach people.
Just suffice to say that a lot of the dudes who are doing this
are all hat and no cattle - I have been watching them come
and go for quite a while in internet years... they come through
forums, etc... making boasts and then you check out their
sig-line 6 months later and they have let the business lapse.
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andyj00
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Joined: 4 Feb 2008
Posts: 39
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2008 20:30
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This guy: http://www.jimkarter.com/ makes $50K per month. I've found his blog is very helpful and I geniunely belive he is earning this kind of money through online marketing. If you have a look around his blog there are some graphs and charts showing his income.
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kevin664
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Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 30
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2008 07:43
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I agree.
Bogus income claims have no place in MLM.
To recruit, lead and grow effectively in MLM means:
- putting yourself on the line first
- taking more knocks than the average
- being a constant student
- being a constant teacher
- setting the example
- growth in all ways, shapes and forms, even when it's uncomfortable
- being bigger and better than you think you can be
Let these characteristics spur you into action to running
your MLM business with integrity.
- Kevin Tyler Smith
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1925
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2008 16:55
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Greg82: I don't personally care what the individuals have made though because If i am good at what I do and a quick learner I will make more. Why would I want to limit my self If i could do better? On the other hand I may not be good at the business, I may not have good mentors, So i might not get as good of results as the person before me.
That is very well said - I totally agree that it is bogus to promise someone they will make thousands their first few months in any online or home business.
It may happen for some but let that be a happy surprise for them...
For most online marketers, it will take some time to build up your business and it will all depend on a number of variables...
Some only have an hour or two a day to build their business... some have no money to advertise...others have all day to work at it, or may have a good avertising budget to get started with...
Bottom line is - the only way to fail ~ is to quit, in my opinion..
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BillChechel
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Posts: 158
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2008 20:35
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Whats funny is that I went on everylink in every sig file of someone that posted here and all the sites have a claim of some sort. So I think before anyone is critical of claims in general, they should not have them on their own webpages.
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1925
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2008 20:51
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Is there a difference between claims and testimonials - maybe?
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BillChechel
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Posts: 158
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2008 21:18
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Yes I believe there is but they are kind of intertwined.
You can make a bogus unfounded income claim that has no proof or testimonial to back it up. At our company we use testimonials to back up our income claims.
In my opinion, having a testimonial on a site is just a round about way of making an income claim. I never saw a testimonial from the thousands that failed at their businesses. Only the successful ones. They are there to show a new prospect what the potential is, the same as an income claim. But I dont see a problem with any of it, we use it in our marketing too.
The real problem is for new business owners is the amount of these claims they have to sort through. You ultimately have to address the real reason they came to the business whatever that reason is(more money, more time , etc.) The income claim or testimonial usually is what gets them in the door the rest is up to you and your system.
I just thought it was funny how everyone does it yet they criticize it when others do it.
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malibumentor
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 342
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2008 22:58
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Actually there is a difference between explaining the
profit-potential of an income opportunity and boasting
of one's personal income.
Without some mention of a lucrative pay-plan many
prospects will be turned away - because they DO want
to earn some money.
It is the making of personal income claims and boasts
that is problematical. Whenever I have told anybody
how much money I have made in the industry I have
regretted it - its sets up a difficult "point of reference"
for the hopeful prospect.
In any conversation its fairly easy to establish that
BUSINESS is for PROFIT - and its also fairly simple to
convey that profits are in direct proportion to EFFORT.
Once that is established there is no need to talk about
how much money I am making. The conversation is
(and should be) about how I can help the prospect to
set up the foundation for a profitable business.
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Greg82
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Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 13
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2008 12:18
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Bill,
Everyone does not do it. A lot of people do it. And thats the problem. There are plenty of other ways to sell someone with out telling them exactly how much money you are making.
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Greg Potter
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Mark_Worthen
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 84
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# Posted: 7 Apr 2008 02:36 · Edited by: Mark_Worthen
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Greg82: Bill, Everyone does not do it. A lot of people do it. And thats the problem. There are plenty of other ways to sell someone with out telling them exactly how much money you are making.
I took Bill to mean that everyone who posted in this thread has some kind of income potential statement on at least one of their websites.
I tell people in my blog exactly how much money I'm making: revenue, expenses, profit.
Some people say I shouldn't do that because I'm not making $20000 a month. I think that's silly.
Everyone knows that only 0.1% (or some really small percentage like that) make six figures with a network marketing business.
I therefore believe that my more modest numbers show prospects:
a) A more typical 'income statement' from a relatively experienced Internet & network marketer;
b) By showing my expenses as well as revenue (gross receipts), I subtly encouraging prospects to keep in mind that the most important number is their profit (revenue - expenses), particularly since most testimonials refer to revenue, not profit.
For example, someone might say they "make $20k a month" but if that's their revenue and they have $19k a month in advertising costs, they are actually earning only $1k per month.
c) They can earn a decent part-time or full-time income. I say "part-time or full-time" because $4000 a month would be considered a part-time income by some and a full-time income by others.
I've had one or two prospects question whether my numbers are real right off the bat, i.e., its the first or second question they ask me.
Frankly, I resent the implication that I would lie and I simply tell those folks that if they don't even take the time to ask some preliminary questions and get to know me first, then I wouldn't want them to sign up with me.
Questioning the veracity of someone's numbers right away is rude and offensive. I figure if they are rude and offensive now, they'll probably be rude and offensive later. I don't want to even entertain the notion of inviting such negative energy into my life.
In terms of substantiating my income, the only thing I've felt comfortable doing is providing some documentation to the owner of this web site (Work-At-Home-Forum.com) to substantiate that I generate gross receipts (revenue) of more than $1000 per month, which is the threshold he set for his thread on the subject.
Mark
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westfam11
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Posts: 482
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# Posted: 9 Apr 2008 14:08
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With most of the leads that I have contacted that is one of the first questions they ask, "How much have you made?" So even though we don't like the big claims, etc. it must be pretty important if that is the first thing your lead is going to ask you?
Becky
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malibumentor
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 342
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# Posted: 10 Apr 2008 15:35
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Hi Becky,
If a person demands to know how much money you are making
you are inviting that question through "posture" on the phone.
When you are just starting out with prospecting you will get
the question sometimes - and it can be turned around and
refocused on the prospect - who is probably beligerant and
would be a PITA to sponsor - so he or she is no great loss
to you.
If your leads are demanding to know ohow much money you
are making it is because YOU are not controlling the conversation.
Perhaps your script is illiciting the question - or your reading
of it.
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mkidd6
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Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 17
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2008 16:05
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When people call me regarding my business, How much do you make is almost the first questions. I tell them that I don't believe it is fair to share that information because what I make is no guarantee what they will make. (They may be much better than I am - LOL)
Seriously, I may tell them how many people I've signed but I don't believe it ethical to tell someone how much you've made - it can be very misleading. I try to keep the focus of the conversation on the training and support they will receive and give them the information they need on the products so they can make the choice that is best for them.
I try t be honest to a fault - If lose a sale so be it. Here's the thing, I want them to know up front they will have to work. If I have to pull them in I'll have to carry them as well. My job is to make sure they have the information they need to make their business successful. (That does not include what I make)
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jschuman
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Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 164
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2008 21:14
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Money seems to be a natural thing to want to know more about because it's the reason that most people do network marketing.
I always found that to be an odd question, though, because in all the years I was in sales and marketing in the off-line world I never once had anybody asked me how much money do you make.
I don't really feel that it is a relevant question in MLM business either because what I make is important is what the income goal of the prospect is.
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Healthyfreemom
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Joined: 5 Apr 2008
Posts: 5
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# Posted: 8 May 2008 00:04
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The posts on this thread are really thoughtful. I appreciate that from everyone. One person spoke to the fact that what you make is no indication of what a prospect can make. Maybe they'll do better. Maybe not. People ask that question because they are trying to gauge whether an opportunity is right for them. People want you to help them understand the risks and rewards of the situation that you're presenting. If you understand the underlying questions, you have a better chance of helping your prospects be clear on what your opportunity is all about and if it is the right one for them.
I am a psychologist and a network marketer. Talking to prospects is a lot of psychology, a lot of confidence and some "hutzpah" . People want to talk about themselves and their dreams and goals. If you are answering more questions than your asking, you will lose them in the early stages of the conversation.
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1925
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# Posted: 8 May 2008 10:35
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malibumentor: If a person demands to know how much money you are making you are inviting that question through "posture" on the phone.
That is so true. I used to get that question all the time and now, I rarely get it....I had someone tell me once. that if we had the kind of posture Bill Gates would have when interviewing a prospect - that our prospects would think it rude to ask us how much we make...
I think there is some truth to that because although I am no where NEAR a 'Gates posture' - lol - when I DO get the question it goes more like this..."Mind if I ask you a question? I don't mean to pry or anything and it's really none of my business, and I know it all depends on what I put into it, but er... ah... how much have YOU made in this..." I am not kidding, it's actually fun... I love that question!
If we are getting a lot of questions that we are uncomfortable answering, it's because we are provoking it...
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