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Message |
JoeBlow
Member
Joined: 5 Aug 2008
Posts: 17
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# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 10:54
ASD Cash Generator Implications
Greggory B. Evans, PhD
Last week, the US Attorney for the District of Columbia filed suit against an autosurf program running in Florida called ASD Cash Generator. The Florida attorney general followed suit soon after, effectively putting the business out of business. Immediately, so called "members" cried out that the evil government shut down a legitimate, paying program, that hadn't hurt anyone and was indeed helping thousands achieve financial independence. Nothing could be farther from the truth, shutting this scam down saved many people from eventually losing their contributions and will minimize the losses of the current customers. Autosurfs are a very weak attempt to make a simple ponzi scheme look like there is some value created, so called "advertising" although the ads run are not legitimate as advertising, and the "rebates" are, from a legal point of view, unregistered securities.
Die hard members are being encouraged by others to write letters to the authorities, telling them how much they have increased their business by advertising on the site, when, in fact, and the Secret Service documented this before moving in to raid ASD, said advertising was mostly for members to get new members to join under them, (ASD offered generous referral commissions) and less than 5% of the ads were for legitimate businesses. Secret Service agents called several of those, and according to court documents, even those few "real businesses" admitted that they were not counting on any increased sales, but the rebates were the underlying reason for their ad buys. Members who attempt to get their testimonials entered into the official record should use caution, it's possible that somewhere down the line, in either civil or criminal proceedings, that they may have to back up those statements, showing records to prove what they have said, which I would think would be unlikely. The simple fact that ASD offered to "rebate" more than the initial cost of the "ad credits" makes it an unsustainable business and the law will regard the rebate structure as a classic ponzi, which of course it is. One promoter engaged me in a very lengthy explanation of how "ASD only paid out 50% per day so how could it be a ponzi?" Well, lets look at that. The marketers of ASD used this sleight of hand to confuse the hapless members, at first glance, that does make some sense, right? "We take in $10,000, we keep $5000, we profit share the other $5000 minus some administrative expense". Now, let's look at it from an accounting point of view, which is more accurate. When a program takes in $10,000 in a day, with the promise of paying out 125% eventually, it creates a liability of $12,500. It keeps the same $5000. So, from the $10,000 it took in, it OWES its members $12,500, its stockholders $5000. Even assuming it pays its expenses from the "profit" it kept, the $5,000, that's still $17,500 it needs to come up with to pay the bills. No matter what percentage a day it uses to pay expenses and members, the cold hard fact is it needs $17,500 out of the $10,000 it took in. Unless it has some business plan that produces this kind of return (and as a hint, no business in history has ever produced this kind of return for an extended period) it goes more into insolvency with every dollar it takes in, because even with no profit for itself, every dollar it receives costs it $1.25, and that's not a good business model in anyone's book.
Just because the money goes out at a slower rate than in comes in, at 1% per day they of course have 100 days before they're sending you money that wasn't what you sent them to begin with does not make it a sustainable business, during the growth of a ponzi scheme it always looks great and everyone is getting paid, but the list of what is owed just gets bigger every dollar they take. That's how a ponzi works. In this case, the US Attorney seized $53 million, but a quick look at the accounts shows that the members, in total, if they were to each get their 25% payout, were owed over $300 million so even if they government just gave back all the money, no one would be anywhere near even. So, where did the money go? A good chunk went to early members, you know, the ones who bragged in online investment forums how much they were making on this can't miss, no risk scheme, got most of it. That was the only real advertising involved in the whole scheme, the "I got paid" cheerleaders are, unlike the ads on the rotator, very effective advertising. These guys spent as much time recruiting as surfing and for them it paid off, or at least they think so. More on that later.....
Of course, there is the $53 million, which is interesting to me, see, it seems that ASD was a little behind on payments. They obviously had the cash to make a few payments, which they need to do as long as they want the new money to keep coming in. It is possible that Andy was building a little nest egg to disappear, the end was near and he had to know it. I don't think it's that simple, though. ASD had just hosted a large conference, I'm sure the bulk of the seized funds were just collected and honestly they hadn't quite got it all counted yet, many forum posts of people looking to see their "numbers on a screen" to show up were seen in the days leading up to the raids. Another rally was coming up so I'm sure they were planning to make a few payments before another big payday in Tulsa. Who knows, it's really not important except to say that there was nowhere near enough to pay what the members were owed, nor even to refund them with no "rebates". Quite a few millions were just flat out stolen and that's the relevant fact. But that's all standard "Autosurf, "HYIP", ponzi scam procedure. Pay them like clockwork as long as today's receipts are more than yesterdays, then fade into the anonymity of the internet, and find a non-extraditable country with nice beaches so you can laugh at the suckers while you plot the next scam. What I really intend to explore here is the evolution of the approach being taken by law enforcement in this case and in the last year in general.
The Jurisdiction
The first thing that struck me about this case when I read about it was the venue. ASD operates in Florida and is incorporated in Nevada, but the US Attorney brought this case in the District of Columbia, where by simple demographics seems a strange place to bring it. Simple numbers would seem to indicate that comparatively few residents of Washington would be victims, the initial complaints the government received were not in D.C. , in fact they first heard about this case in Florida where ASD operates. So why is this case going to be tried in the nation's capitol? The only reason for this is the government is going to make a statement with this case, no more fooling around with receivers and trying to put the pieces back together, this time they're going to go after the owners, the promoters, the participants, everyone. The first clue is the absence of a receiver. In the past, action has been brought by the SEC who initially filed for an injunction, part of which was the appointment of a receiver to take over the company and begin a forensic analysis of the records and eventually refunding members to the extent that funds were available to do so. In this case, though few have noticed the distinction, the Secret Service is the moving party and they seized the funds. The mandate of the Secret Service is not to protect investors or the public; it is to protect the currency. No one is pointing this out yet, but that's important. What it means is that the money and Andy's two homes now belong to the US Treasury and there isn't even much in the way of legal process for anyone to recover it. There's not going to be any big refund here, the money has been forfeit to the Government and the only way to get it back is to prove in a court that it WAS NOT derived in criminal conduct, which is not going to happen. As bad as that news is to the people who haven't made a profit, it gets even worse for the early participants who are net winners so far. Every dollar paid out, including the initial investment of participants being returned to them, is also subject to forfeit and you can count on them coming after it, not because it's a lot of money (somewhere in the neighborhood of $20 million by one estimate) but for the deterrent value that this is going to cause. The intention of the prosecution here is to send a clear message that being in anyway involved in internet fraud, HYIPs, Autosurfs etc.... is going to cost the members, promoters, operators, all of them. Don't be surprised to see the admins of the major rating sites prosecuted by the time this is over, and we haven't even started thinking of the second wave of civil suits. Don't be comforted by the promoters saying "this is just a civil suit, no criminal charges are pending" or such soothing statements. The civil injunction is much easier to get, it stops the crime, and it also provides the authorities a very convenient way to dig deep inside a criminal enterprise and collect solid evidence for the criminal trial. Once they have the computers, they have all they need to keep themselves busy for as long and as deep as they want to go.
This is the next step of the evolution of prosecuting these crimes. A year ago they went after another program, CEP, and tried to make an example of it by having a court appointed receiver take the corporate entity into bankruptcy and suing those in profit under the doctrine of avoidable payments. At least one of the investigators in that case was astounded to see the same members being sued for their unlawful gains actively and publicly participating in another online scheme. This blatant attempt to answer one wrong with another is partly behind the new strategy we see here, no one gets anything back, and everyone gets hurt. And I for one think it's about time.
I think it's clear that this raid marks a new paradigm in how law enforcement sees the need to have one good case that everyone will point to as the example. No more will crooks be able to try some convoluted argument that you're not investing, y
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JoeBlow
Member
Joined: 5 Aug 2008
Posts: 17
|
# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 10:57
Sorry, I cut the bottom off of the last C&P, but very pertinent to read the last paragraph all the way through.
ASD Cash Generator Implications
Greggory B. Evans, PhD
Last week, the US Attorney for the District of Columbia filed suit against an autosurf program running in Florida called ASD Cash Generator. The Florida attorney general followed suit soon after, effectively putting the business out of business. Immediately, so called "members" cried out that the evil government shut down a legitimate, paying program, that hadn't hurt anyone and was indeed helping thousands achieve financial independence. Nothing could be farther from the truth, shutting this scam down saved many people from eventually losing their contributions and will minimize the losses of the current customers. Autosurfs are a very weak attempt to make a simple ponzi scheme look like there is some value created, so called "advertising" although the ads run are not legitimate as advertising, and the "rebates" are, from a legal point of view, unregistered securities.
Die hard members are being encouraged by others to write letters to the authorities, telling them how much they have increased their business by advertising on the site, when, in fact, and the Secret Service documented this before moving in to raid ASD, said advertising was mostly for members to get new members to join under them, (ASD offered generous referral commissions) and less than 5% of the ads were for legitimate businesses. Secret Service agents called several of those, and according to court documents, even those few "real businesses" admitted that they were not counting on any increased sales, but the rebates were the underlying reason for their ad buys. Members who attempt to get their testimonials entered into the official record should use caution, it's possible that somewhere down the line, in either civil or criminal proceedings, that they may have to back up those statements, showing records to prove what they have said, which I would think would be unlikely. The simple fact that ASD offered to "rebate" more than the initial cost of the "ad credits" makes it an unsustainable business and the law will regard the rebate structure as a classic ponzi, which of course it is. One promoter engaged me in a very lengthy explanation of how "ASD only paid out 50% per day so how could it be a ponzi?" Well, lets look at that. The marketers of ASD used this sleight of hand to confuse the hapless members, at first glance, that does make some sense, right? "We take in $10,000, we keep $5000, we profit share the other $5000 minus some administrative expense". Now, let's look at it from an accounting point of view, which is more accurate. When a program takes in $10,000 in a day, with the promise of paying out 125% eventually, it creates a liability of $12,500. It keeps the same $5000. So, from the $10,000 it took in, it OWES its members $12,500, its stockholders $5000. Even assuming it pays its expenses from the "profit" it kept, the $5,000, that's still $17,500 it needs to come up with to pay the bills. No matter what percentage a day it uses to pay expenses and members, the cold hard fact is it needs $17,500 out of the $10,000 it took in. Unless it has some business plan that produces this kind of return (and as a hint, no business in history has ever produced this kind of return for an extended period) it goes more into insolvency with every dollar it takes in, because even with no profit for itself, every dollar it receives costs it $1.25, and that's not a good business model in anyone's book.
Just because the money goes out at a slower rate than in comes in, at 1% per day they of course have 100 days before they're sending you money that wasn't what you sent them to begin with does not make it a sustainable business, during the growth of a ponzi scheme it always looks great and everyone is getting paid, but the list of what is owed just gets bigger every dollar they take. That's how a ponzi works. In this case, the US Attorney seized $53 million, but a quick look at the accounts shows that the members, in total, if they were to each get their 25% payout, were owed over $300 million so even if they government just gave back all the money, no one would be anywhere near even. So, where did the money go? A good chunk went to early members, you know, the ones who bragged in online investment forums how much they were making on this can't miss, no risk scheme, got most of it. That was the only real advertising involved in the whole scheme, the "I got paid" cheerleaders are, unlike the ads on the rotator, very effective advertising. These guys spent as much time recruiting as surfing and for them it paid off, or at least they think so. More on that later.....
Of course, there is the $53 million, which is interesting to me, see, it seems that ASD was a little behind on payments. They obviously had the cash to make a few payments, which they need to do as long as they want the new money to keep coming in. It is possible that Andy was building a little nest egg to disappear, the end was near and he had to know it. I don't think it's that simple, though. ASD had just hosted a large conference, I'm sure the bulk of the seized funds were just collected and honestly they hadn't quite got it all counted yet, many forum posts of people looking to see their "numbers on a screen" to show up were seen in the days leading up to the raids. Another rally was coming up so I'm sure they were planning to make a few payments before another big payday in Tulsa. Who knows, it's really not important except to say that there was nowhere near enough to pay what the members were owed, nor even to refund them with no "rebates". Quite a few millions were just flat out stolen and that's the relevant fact. But that's all standard "Autosurf, "HYIP", ponzi scam procedure. Pay them like clockwork as long as today's receipts are more than yesterdays, then fade into the anonymity of the internet, and find a non-extraditable country with nice beaches so you can laugh at the suckers while you plot the next scam. What I really intend to explore here is the evolution of the approach being taken by law enforcement in this case and in the last year in general.
The Jurisdiction
The first thing that struck me about this case when I read about it was the venue. ASD operates in Florida and is incorporated in Nevada, but the US Attorney brought this case in the District of Columbia, where by simple demographics seems a strange place to bring it. Simple numbers would seem to indicate that comparatively few residents of Washington would be victims, the initial complaints the government received were not in D.C. , in fact they first heard about this case in Florida where ASD operates. So why is this case going to be tried in the nation's capitol? The only reason for this is the government is going to make a statement with this case, no more fooling around with receivers and trying to put the pieces back together, this time they're going to go after the owners, the promoters, the participants, everyone. The first clue is the absence of a receiver. In the past, action has been brought by the SEC who initially filed for an injunction, part of which was the appointment of a receiver to take over the company and begin a forensic analysis of the records and eventually refunding members to the extent that funds were available to do so. In this case, though few have noticed the distinction, the Secret Service is the moving party and they seized the funds. The mandate of the Secret Service is not to protect investors or the public; it is to protect the currency. No one is pointing this out yet, but that's important. What it means is that the money and Andy's two homes now belong to the US Treasury and there isn't even much in the way of legal process for anyone to recover it. There's not going to be any big refund here, the money has been forfeit to the Government and the only way to get it back is to prove in a court that it WAS NOT derived in criminal conduct, which is not going to happen. As bad as that news is to the people who haven't made a profit, it gets even worse for the early participants who are net winners so far. Every dollar paid out, including the initial investment of participants being returned to them, is also subject to forfeit and you can count on them coming after it, not because it's a lot of money (somewhere in the neighborhood of $20 million by one estimate) but for the deterrent value that this is going to cause. The intention of the prosecution here is to send a clear message that being in anyway involved in internet fraud, HYIPs, Autosurfs etc.... is going to cost the members, promoters, operators, all of them. Don't be surprised to see the admins of the major rating sites prosecuted by the time this is over, and we haven't even started thinking of the second wave of civil suits. Don't be comforted by the promoters saying "this is just a civil suit, no criminal charges are pending" or such soothing statements. The civil injunction is much easier to get, it stops the crime, and it also provides the authorities a very convenient way to dig deep inside a criminal enterprise and collect solid evidence for the criminal trial. Once they have the computers, they have all they need to keep themselves busy for as long and as deep as they want to go.
This is the next step of the evolution of prosecuting these crimes. A year ago they went after another program, CEP, and tried to make an example of it by having a court appointed receiver take the corporate entity into bankruptcy and suing those in profit under the doctrine of avoidable payments. At least one of the investigators in that case was astounded to see the same members being sued for their unlawful gains actively and publicly participating in another online scheme. This blatant attempt to answer one wrong with another is partly behind the new strategy we see here, no one gets anything back, and everyone gets hurt. And I for one think it's about time.
I think it's clear that this raid marks a new paradigm in how law enforcement sees the need to have one good case that everyone
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JoeBlow
Member
Joined: 5 Aug 2008
Posts: 17
|
# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 12:14
If you read the financial break down it all makes sense why their site was always down. Not enough in the coffers to pay out. Once they got more money in they paid and then the cycle began again. Obviously they were growing rapidly and much was coming in, but still not enough the meet the out pour demand. I would think, that Andy had to have known it was going to implode and was more concerned about that little problem than his legal problem. Thank God the feds jumped in before Andy jumped ship from simple implosion and not legal problems.
The excuse that site is down and too much growth and traffic just never did sit with me. Never made sense.
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paulk
Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 30
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# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 13:11
Wow! You must like to see your writing on the internet.
What you have just stated is completely false. Why dont
you do some research before making all these false
statements. Did you research why ASD's accountants
and lawyers all agree that this is not a ponzi and is
completely sustainable? You said that ASD used the
excuse that the website is down to not make payments.
But at the time there was over 53 milliion dollars in
the Bank Of America. Do you think they could have made
a few cashouts with $53 million dollars?
We are all adults. When we signed up we had to agree
to the terms that we are only purchasing advertising.
There is no guarantee of earning even one penny in
rebates. We were all in agreement. No one could get
hurt ever because we all get the advertising that we
paid for. (which did bring good results) Members prefer
to make purchases from other members - so this was
very good advertising that brought good results. There
was also no time frame in which rebates would be paid.
If we got back 125% in four months or four years it would
not matter. Rebates were never guaranteed.
Nobody is saved from losing money by this being shut down.
Anyone who joins a year from now will still receive the
advertising that they paid for. If they earn a rebate - great.
If they dont, well that was never promised anyway. If they
joined only for a rebate then they did not read the terms
of service that they agreed to when they bought advertising.
The only people that were hurt were the over 100,000
current members whose lives were so much better off
because of ASD.
Please do a little research before posting false information.
__________________
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JoeBlow
Member
Joined: 5 Aug 2008
Posts: 17
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# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 13:31
Did you read the US Attorney's complaint? They did read the 12 page terms of service because they reference it in their pleadings as well as attach it as their evidence.
Remember, ASD attorneys and accountants were paid to say they are legal.
BTW.. I am not the author of the above post. Greggory B. Evans is.
And:
"Nobody is saved from losing money by this being shut down.
Anyone who joins a year from now will still receive the
advertising that they paid for. If they earn a rebate - great.
If they dont, well that was never promised anyway. If they
joined only for a rebate then they did not read the terms
of service that they agreed to when they bought advertising.
The only people that were hurt were the over 100,000
current members whose lives were so much better off
because of ASD.
Please do a little research before posting false information."
What research do you have that says ASD will be up and running a year from now?
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JoeBlow
Member
Joined: 5 Aug 2008
Posts: 17
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# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 19:25
OK. This is pure speculation here, but from what we know is true about Andy and ASD:
Andy supposedly approached the Florida AG to ask them if they had any problem with ASD. So, if Andy really thought he had his legal loopholes covered, then he really wasn't worried about legal problems.
According to the US Attorneys filed complaint:
64. Within the past two weeks, ASD has wired several million dollars to Solid Trust Pay from its BOA Accounts. A TFA also learned that earlier in July 2008, a bank other than BOA closed the last account that was controlled by Bowdoin or family members after that bank determined, and explained to them, that an investigation by the bank determined that Bowdoin appeared to be operating a Ponzi scheme. Bowdoin indicated that he purchased, or was seeking
to purchase, a home in another country.
So, Andy was moving millions of dollars to an offshore account and had purchased or was planning on purchasing a home in another country.
So, if Andy if Andy wasn't worried about legal problems, did Andy see the impending implosion of his Ponzi?
Was Andy going to take the money and run?
I know pure speculation again, but a picture seems to be forming. We know a ponzi is doomed for implosion because it cannot financially stand up.
We know that ASD was reaching critical mass and that more people were coming in faster and faster and more money was needed to pay out faster and faster. But, the 125% ROI along with the double promotions he was pitching, I wonder if the money was running out faster than he expected, so he was making a big push by adding promotions to entice new money to come in to keep this thing going (using "website problems" as his excuse to buy time) while setting himself up offshore to run.
He didn't see the feds coming.
Oh that's right. Andy would never do that. He's a God fearing really good business man that ALWAYS tells the truth.
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paulk
Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 30
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# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 19:34
Again, please do your research first before posting
all this speculation.
Money was moved into Solid Trust Pay because
Alert Pay was no longer going to be used and
Andy needed to fund Solid Trust Pay because that
is how members cashout and get paid. So while you
are trying to imply that money was being moved so
Andy can run away with it, the money was actually
being moved to pay members.
Also, if Andy was looking to take our money and run,
why did he ask the Florida AG to make sure that
all of ASD was legally compliant?
Everything he did was to protect the members.
Average people were able to get out of foreclosure
because of ASD. Elderly people were able to buy
prescription drugs and marriages were saved.
What do you gain from all your posts that try
to make Andy and ASD into a scam?
__________________
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JoeBlow
Member
Joined: 5 Aug 2008
Posts: 17
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# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 19:44
So, Andy had to set up an offshore bank account to pay members? You mean there were no US banks that he could use?
What about my friends who lost $10's of thousands of dollars? What about them?
I don't know why Andy asked the Florida AG to talk with them. Maybe you do.
I did do my research, and again, it's just speculation. And I will keep researching.
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TommyT
Member
Joined: 6 Aug 2008
Posts: 6
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# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 19:46 � Edited by: TommyT
paulk: Everything he did was to protect the members. Average people were able to get out of foreclosure because of ASD. Elderly people were able to buy prescription drugs and marriages were saved.
Actually Paul if you think about it, quite the opposite will be true. Average people will be in foreclosure, elderly people will be without prescriptions, and marriages will be ruined because of Andy and his Ponzi. Hope for the best!
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JoeBlow
Member
Joined: 5 Aug 2008
Posts: 17
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# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 19:50
Why again did ASD stop using Alert Pay?
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JoeBlow
Member
Joined: 5 Aug 2008
Posts: 17
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# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 19:58
Why am I doing this? To try and help innocent gullible people, like you, from getting burned.
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paulk
Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 30
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# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 22:00
Andy stopped using AlertPay because when this
payment processor sent the customers money
to him, there was not a place to put the information
needed for ASD to credit peoples account for their
purchases on a timely basis. So again, to help people
get their ad packages credited on a timely basis
he would use Solid Trust Pay which did give a place
to give all your member information and that way
every member would be credited right away. Again,
all this was done to help the members. Solid Trust Pay
is an offshore company so he had no choice but to
put the funds in the offshore account just as the other
companys that use Solid Trust Pay have done.
If anyones life is ruined as you say, then only the
government can be blamed. I received every cashout
I ever requested. Just as all the 100,000 plus members did.
Again, Andy lived up to his promises. But the government
had other ideas and came in and ruined everybodys lives
and income. If your friends lost money, then they can only
blame the government. ASD always paid every member.
Nobody was ever hurt until the government stepped in
and stopped this company before anyone was ever proven
guilty of anything. Certainly not a democracy that we pretend
that we live in. Innocent until proven guilty? Not in the
United States.
__________________
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Caterina
Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 128
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# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 22:24
JoeBlow: Why am I doing this? To try and help innocent gullible people, like you, from getting burned.
LOL!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
That's THE funniest thing I've read in over a week.....
Cool and Paul - high-fivin' ya but methinks they get their jollies off when someone replies to them......if you can, ignore em.....maybe they'll drift off to another forum to save someone else....
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TommyT
Member
Joined: 6 Aug 2008
Posts: 6
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# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 22:32
paulk: Solid Trust Pay is an offshore company so he had no choice but to put the funds in the offshore account just as the other companys that use Solid Trust Pay have done.
Funny how Bowdoin "had no choice" but to put funds into an offshore account. I bet his arm was twisted to do that! LMAO
paulk: If your friends lost money, then they can only blame the government.
Actually the government saved countless others from losing their a$$ down the road. A Ponzi is a Ponzi. People at the bottom of the food chain are ALWAYS going to lose big whether that's now or later. Problem is if it was later, there would be many more victims.
Time to stop making excuses. Can't anyone admit they invested into a scam and lost? (some knowingly, others because they didn't do their DD). In either case, you lost. Accept that and move on with your life.
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Vaussie
Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 101
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# Posted: 11 Aug 2008 22:58
TommyT: Actually the government saved countless others from losing their a$$ down the road. A Ponzi is a Ponzi. People at the bottom of the food chain are ALWAYS going to lose big whether that's now or later. Problem is if it was later, there would be many more victims. Time to stop making excuses. Can't anyone admit they invested into a scam and lost? (some knowingly, others because they didn't do their DD). In either case, you lost. Accept that and move on with your life.
Speculation! And nothing more...
You made your point, and now you are free to move on!
If you people were interested in protecting anyone... why do you show up after the fact? Because you get your rocks off in other people's APPARENT failures! Well ASD is not dead in the water yet! Time will tell!
In the interim... I inject my point of view - a company who is looking to SCAM anyone does not sit on checks for 2 1/2 weeks - only to have them taken by the US Govt. Nor do they week in and week out keep the members posted on developments.
No need to reply to me... time will tell... and if I'm wrong, it will be evident on it's own accord... I certainly am intelligent enough that I don't need people in this forum rubbing my nose in the crap to make me see that!
Thanks, but no thanks for your "do good" saving grace's presence in this forum!
__________________
Still a believer in ASD!
This post is either my opinion or my relative truth based on the information I have to this point in my journey!
Take what you like and leave the rest!
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alasycia
Member
Joined: 4 May 2008
Posts: 289
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 07:57
Posts by people who joined this forum since the AG crashed into our business and stopped it are to be viewed with GREAT SUSPICION - WHATEVER THEY SAY!.
They, as Vassie says, get their rocks off with all this stuff they are posting and couldnt give a **** for the ASD members, or they would have been here a long time before with their "advice".
Dont forget scandal attracts the vultures.
__________________
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JoeBlow
Member
Joined: 5 Aug 2008
Posts: 17
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 11:44
I did warn my friends about this in May. I told them either the feds would shut them down, or it would implode, or the owner would take the money and run (which I think all 3 were happening on August 1). I begged them not to talk to people about this. But they did.
But, think about it. Imagine if I were on this forumbefore the crash. Do you think anyone who was in this thing would have listened to me? Especially when money was being flashed everywhere?
They won't even listen now when there are 2 government lawsuits against Andy and ASD with ongoing criminal investigation and charges looming!!!
And all of Andy's and Busby's lies and past criminal records exposed.
They still believe!
So...who am I? I'm just one of those stupid idiots out there who did not grab the brass ring when it was flying by. And now it's too late.
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WhiteSox
Member
Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 33
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 13:40
Joe Blow..
Just listening in on your many posts. Quite honestly, a normal process would have been for you to find this forum when you were first introduced to what you perceived to be a scam. You go on to say that you called it 100% back in May what the outcome would be. Logic says that you would have joined in May and and used the forum to gather / find information to base your opinion and then if you thought you needed to help all the "gullible" people you could have spoke your opinion of what you thought during that time. You can't join a forum after the fact boasting of your keen insight and belittle all the ASD members of how gullible they were. What are you trying to accomplish here? Who really knows what the real truth is here until things get settled. There is no real reason for you to be on this ASD forum unless you are here to press people's buttons or agitate. You are supplying no useful information to the actual ASD members who are here to get information / share ideas on what is transpiring and to be kept in the loop. Your time will be much better invested if you try and save all the gullibles by going into other forums discussing what you perceive to be deceptive opportunities BEFORE something like this happens. Then and only then will you be taken seriously. Just my opinion.
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JoeBlow
Member
Joined: 5 Aug 2008
Posts: 17
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 14:01
Whitesox,
If you read my previous post you will see I am explaining who I am and why I am here. It was done because I was asked. I am not bragging about my keen insight. I am explaining myself. When I did try to warn my friends, (who have gone on to recruit quite a network) they would not take my advice. They saw the big checks flashing, and they wanted to believe in it.
This is not an ASD forum. It is a work at home forum.
And I believe that I am supplying useful information. It may not be useful to you.
I am not trying to aggitate. When I make a post on what I feel is useful information, I get attacked and questioned. It is OK for you to post your useful information, it is OK for you to question me, but because I am not in full agreement with you, my post are suspect?
I do appreciate your post though. It was thoughtful and not aggressive. However, confrontational. So, don't get upset when I answer.
And I am not trying to push your buttons. I am explaining myself.
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TJamMoneyMan
Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 503
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 14:09
WhiteSox: Then and only then will you be taken seriously. Just my opinion.
Personally, I take Joe Blow's comments on ASD quite seriously.
They have been very useful and informative.
ASD is the entity that needs to get it's act together if they want to be taken seriously.
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TJamMoneyMan
Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 503
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 14:12
TommyT: Can't anyone admit they invested into a scam and lost?
Nope!
Only the humble and wise are capable of such a feat!
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RickKelley
Member
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 38
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 14:17
This is not an ASD forum. It is a work at home forum.
Actually...this is a thread for ASD in the work at home forum. If it doesn't pertain to ASD then it should be posted in a different thread.
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WhiteSox
Member
Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 33
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 14:43
My comment to you Joe Blow wasn't meant to be confrontational. If it was perceived to be I apologize.
The bottom line here is that there seems to be 2 different teams playing against each other here. The ASD people won't be convinced that what you hear is 100% accurate regarding the AG claims much like the ASD bashers will not be swayed that it isn't 100% accurate. All that's happening is ASD people lashing out at the bashers and the bashers rubbing salt in an open wound. Everything has been brought up and argued and defended multiple times.
Judging from the number of posts that are read, I can only surmise that there are a lot of people who are reading but not posting and are probably looking for valuable information in regard to money they may have tied up in ASD. If it is valid information whether it is negative or positive we should all share without the need to get combative.
I for one can't wait until all the facts are validated so I can either shake Andy's hand or send him away. There are so many conflicting stories that no one really knows the whole truth at this point.
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JoeBlow
Member
Joined: 5 Aug 2008
Posts: 17
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 15:03
Whitesox,
You have a very valid point. My time would be better invested going to other forums to try to prevent others from getting involved into these types of scams.
However, I am not a crusader for the cause, but, I am intrigued by this.
When my freinds first introduced me to this in May, I did do an internet search for information. The only forum conversations going on were very few, and mostly little things like "The site is down" "How do I get paid" and the likes of that.
After that, I gave my opinion and warning to my friends and then moved on.
I just happened to see a news release on Aug 1 about ASD being shut down, purely by accident, and have been completely glued to find out anything that I can.
Maybe my efforts are too little too late. However, as I see the believers gathering their strength and backing Andy and hiring law firms and calling the troops to believe and write the government, then I try to post what I think is useful information to again, try to give what I believe to be some balance.
If it's speculation, I say speculation. But there are valid points and documented facts available to all to see and read concerning the red flags about ASD now and ASD future. And those things I post.
My opinions, which, like you said, probably falls on deaf ears. And some will choose to follow Andy no matter where he goes. This battle will take a very long time to settle. The courts will decide. I do know the legality of this industry very intimately and have seen both government and civil suits personally. I am speaking from experience.
I don't want to aggitate, and I don't want to rub salt in anyone's wounds. I apologize if that is what it appears that I am doing, and I do apologize if I feel that way at times.
But, I still will probably post more.
I will try to post my opinions more carefully (act but not react).
Thanks!
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kec
Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 42
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 15:34
paulk: Andy stopped using AlertPay because when this payment processor sent the customers money to him, there was not a place to put the information needed for ASD to credit peoples account for their purchases on a timely basis. So again, to help people get their ad packages credited on a timely basis he would use Solid Trust Pay which did give a place to give all your member information and that way every member would be credited right away. Again, all this was done to help the members. Solid Trust Pay is an offshore company so he had no choice but to put the funds in the offshore account just as the other companys that use Solid Trust Pay have done. If anyones life is ruined as you say, then only the government can be blamed. I received every cashout I ever requested. Just as all the 100,000 plus members did. Again, Andy lived up to his promises. But the government had other ideas and came in and ruined everybodys lives and income. If your friends lost money, then they can only blame the government. ASD always paid every member. Nobody was ever hurt until the government stepped in and stopped this company before anyone was ever proven guilty of anything. Certainly not a democracy that we pretend that we live in. Innocent until proven guilty? Not in the United States. __________________ Paul Kohn
Wow, are you related to andy? He had no choice than to use an off shore company? That joke made my day.....
It's like there is an elephant in the middle of the room and you cannot see it.
How about Andy being totally legit and using systems where checks can be faxed like every other USA company?
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kec
Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 42
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 15:37
Vaussie: a company who is looking to SCAM anyone does not sit on checks for 2 1/2 weeks - only to have them taken by the US Govt. Nor do they week in and week out keep the members posted on developments.
Perhaps.....
but I say it is total incompetence in running a business. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to make sure checks get posted and into a bank everyday. I know, I have done it for years....running a legit business.
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kec
Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 42
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 15:44
WhiteSox: There is no real reason for you to be on this ASD forum unless you are here to press people's buttons or agitate. You are supplying no useful information to the actual ASD members who are here to get information / share ideas on what is transpiring and to be kept in the loop. Your time will be much better invested if you try and save all the gullibles by going into other forums discussing what you perceive to be deceptive opportunities BEFORE something like this happens. Then and only then will you be taken seriously. Just my opinion.
Havent you ever been a member of message boards before? They are not censored. This is not China. Forums are for all to give their opinion.
If YOU want a purist forum to be in your happy place all the time --start YOUR OWN and only allow members that help to keep your delusion going.
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RickKelley
Member
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 38
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 15:52
Three insignificant posts, right in a row! This is exactly what we talk about Kec!!! Nobody was talking to you yet you chime in for no reason with no good information on ASD current status.
Haven't you realized yet that many of us are on here because we are concerned with what is happening with ASD? Then there are people like you that have nothing better but to stir up shit. You are a business owner....go find something to do that will make your business better. From what I am seeing/reading I am sure it is in much need of improvements on the leadership/professionalism side of the house.
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kec
Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 42
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 16:02
RickKelley: Three insignificant posts, right in a row! This is exactly what we talk about Kec!!! Nobody was talking to you yet you chime in for no reason with no good information on ASD current status. Haven't you realized yet that many of us are on here because we are concerned with what is happening with ASD? Then there are people like you that have nothing better but to stir up shit. You are a business owner....go find something to do that will make your business better. From what I am seeing/reading I am sure it is in much need of improvements on the leadership/professionalism side of the house.
You bashing people that post ....yep that is valuable too.. You know it doesnt matter how much you jump and scream and have your fits, I and others that were screwed by asd are still going to post.
Get over it.
So far I have seen you post on several threads just to rant at people posting comments to posts. That IS what a forum is for...to respond to posts.
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TJamMoneyMan
Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 503
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# Posted: 12 Aug 2008 16:11
RickKelley: Nobody was talking to you yet you chime in for no reason with no good information on ASD current status.
It is the fault of no other entity than ASD, that there IS no good information on ASD to post!
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