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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1967
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2008 13:38
Reply
Here are some interesting articles on the cash gifting deals....
http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/InPerson/MajorPerson/gifting_articles.htm
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marion1050
Member
Joined: 7 Jun 2008
Posts: 11
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2008 13:55
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Cash Gifting programs are illegal - but it is amazing that so many people don't know this!
Hopefully the article will help correct this somewhat.
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opendomain
Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 535
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2008 14:01
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...wow.
I kind of thought this was jsut plain old commno knowledge. I am shocked to learn how rampant this is in certain areas.
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million2
Member
Joined: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 23
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# Posted: 13 Jun 2008 19:50
Reply
Several months ago I joined a cash gifting program, my gut feeling was not good about this,but I joined. True enough I did not pursue it as I just had a very uncomfortable feeling and could not do it,even though my sponsor was so very convincing. I was told it was legal,but I am so glad I followed my instinct.
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cashgift1000
Anonymous
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# Posted: 14 Jun 2008 03:09
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Yes Cashh gifting is very legal.. I've been in a close to six months and made plenty of money. Im still not in jail j/k I've done my research guys.
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getagrip
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1855
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# Posted: 14 Jun 2008 04:34 · Edited by: getagrip
Reply
Just go to ripoffreport.com and see what comes up for cash gifting.
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CSGWAHM
Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 272
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# Posted: 14 Jun 2008 16:13
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Thanks for the article! I saw it on another work at home site I frequent. It seems to be running rampant as another poster stated. I would stay far away from this type of thing.
Million2......Good idea listening to your gut instict. Glad you got out of it.
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TJamMoneyMan
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Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 733
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2009 15:07
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This post is about one article, being presented as an answer to the title of this thread 'Cash gifting, legal or not??'.
But that article is about PYRAMIDS, not 'cash gifting'!
They are not the same thing.
There is not even a good definition of what 'cash gifting' is or is not, as far as I can see.
Pyramids yes, are illegal.
Please show which cash gifting plans are illegal.
NOT pyramids!
Who has been prosecuted etc for cash gifting.
What plan, what website, what individuals?
What court case?
What law specifies cash gifting as illegal?
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joanpeterson
Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 93
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2009 17:27 · Edited by: joanpeterson
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These links should help people make a decision that they feel comfortable with. If what you are doing does not fit into what is indicated in these links - great!
http://www.cashgiftingwatchdog.com/basics/cash-gifting-law/
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt056.shtm
http://www.bbb.org/us/article/little-bernie-madoffs-abound-on-the-internet;-bbb-warns -cash-gifting-pyramid-schemes-flourishing-online-9865
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BobFirestone
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Joined: 1 Jul 2009
Posts: 115
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2009 20:11 · Edited by: BobFirestone
Reply
TJamMoneyMan: But that article is about PYRAMIDS, not 'cash gifting'! They are not the same thing. There is not even a good definition of what 'cash gifting' is or is not, as far as I can see. Pyramids yes, are illegal.
Lets see...
This is an excerpt from - PREPARED STATEMENT OF DEBRA A. VALENTINE, GENERAL COUNSEL FOR THE U.S. FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION on "PYRAMID SCHEMES": Pyramid schemes now come in so many forms that they may be difficult to recognize immediately. However, they all share one overriding characteristic. They promise consumers or investors large profits based primarily on recruiting others to join their program, not based on profits from any real investment or real sale of goods to the public.
read the full statement at [url=http://www.ftc.gov/speeches/other/dvimf16.shtm][/url]
Cash Gifting... Lets see...
Paid only for recruiting? Yes
Real investment made? No
Real sale of goods? No
So yes all cash gifting programs are pyramids so there fore all cash gifting programs are illegal.
Most prosecutions are done on the state and county level and don't get a lot of press coverage. The one I can think of off the top of my head was Women Helping Women out of Sacramento California.
The unfortunate reality is most of the promoters of these programs never face prosecution because of the speed that they are set up and fail and most people who lose money in these schemes don't report the crime because they feel stupid.
The IRS is only concerned that you pay taxes on the money received. The wording that makes legitimate cash gifts tax free is that there has to be no expectation of anything in return. Organized cash gifting programs obviously people are expecting a return on their money and no disclosure you sign is going to change that fact. It would be like a hooker having customers sign a piece of paper saying they weren't paying for sex they were paying her to leave after.
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Andy3568
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Posts: 49
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2009 20:47
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Pyramid schemes now come in so many forms that they may be difficult to recognize immediately. However, they all share one overriding characteristic. They promise consumers or investors large profits based primarily on recruiting others to join their program, not based on profits from any real investment or real sale of goods to the public.
OK, what confuses me is this. He uses the word, "primarily," not "only." Since he uses the word "primarily," it seems he is talking about every MLM company out there since most people recognize the profits come "primarily" from building your downline, i.e. "recruiting others to join their program."
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BobFirestone
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Joined: 1 Jul 2009
Posts: 115
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2009 21:23
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Andy3568: Since he uses the word "primarily," it seems he is talking about every MLM company out there since most people recognize the profits come "primarily" from building your downline, i.e. "recruiting others to join their program."
It is unfortunate but "most people" are usually wrong especially when it comes to MLM. In a legitimate MLM the money doesn't primarily come from recruiting it actually comes from the sale of goods.
For example the company I work with offers multiple packages to get started they are priced @ $30, $300, $600, $1,000 & $3,000. The $300 is actually $30 for a distributer kit and $270 worth of product. The $30 is for only a distributer kit.
I only get paid when product moves. On the $300 pack I make $33. On the $30 kit I make $0.
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Offer Tsuriel
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Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 36
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2009 04:11
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I think cash gifting is a scam and anyone who joined this kind of program, will eventually loose his/her money or will try to scan others.
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getagrip
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1855
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2009 11:43 · Edited by: getagrip
Reply
Here is a good thread on cash gifting:
http://www.work-at-home-forum.com/3_9752_0.html
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TJamMoneyMan
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Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 733
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2009 12:55 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
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Sorry, GetaGrip.
You regularly post some very good information, but this is just a link to another WAHF thread (not that that in itself is a bad thing!!).
But people have been posting LOTS of misleading information about cash gifting in these threads here at the WAHF.
The anti-cash gifting group seems to be firmly attached to their idea that all cash gifting plans are illegal.
They then post the same tired, irrelevant links that have nothing to do with cash gifting.
Their ego has completely closed down what should be a rational, clear thinking OPEN mindset, in an effort to protect their biased viewpoint.
Sorry for the Psycho-babble, but I think this is obvious!
I am still waiting for someone to show where ANYONE was convicted of the 'crime' of cash gifting.
Not pyramid, ponzi, tax evasion etc...
Come on folx!
Cash gifting is SOOO illegal, 'pure and simple'.
So where is the proof?
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BobFirestone
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Joined: 1 Jul 2009
Posts: 115
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2009 13:55
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TJamMoneyMan: I am still waiting for someone to show where ANYONE was convicted of the 'crime' of cash gifting. Not pyramid, ponzi, tax evasion etc...
They were convicted of running a pyramid scheme because that is what cash gifting is!
Explain to me how an organized cash gifting program is not a pyramid scheme?
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TJamMoneyMan
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Joined: 11 Nov 2007
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2009 14:23 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
Reply
BobFirestone: They were convicted of running a pyramid scheme because that is what cash gifting is!
Cash gifting is not necessarily a pyramid scheme.
Please do your own research and discover exactly what a pyramid scheme is.
Many online and other business models use a pyramid structure.
That in itself does not make it an ILLEGAL pyramid structure.
There are determinations about what makes a pyramid structure illegal.
One of the main factors is that there is NOTHING offered but a place in the pyramid, in exchange for the money you give.
I am not going to explain these things to you.
It was EGGZACKLY one hour from the time I made my post, until your reply(!).
Please take time to research before you post a reply!
There are sooo many posts here at WAHF by folx more knowledgeable than I.
If you had taken the time to search and review some of them, you would have an answer to your questions.
Just do the research, and think for yourself.
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BobFirestone
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Posts: 115
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2009 14:35 · Edited by: BobFirestone
Reply
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-34739_20942-201450--,00.html
I have done my research. Organized Cash Gifting programs are ILLEGAL pyramid schemes.
You put money in with the expectation that more people will come in after you and give you money. That is a PYRAMID SCHEME!!!
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TJamMoneyMan
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2009 14:45 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
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BobFirestone: You put money in with the expectation that more people will come in after you and give you money. That is a PYRAMID SCHEME!!!
First look up the definition of what a pyramid structure is and what makes it illegal.
Then show which CG plan violates that and how.
Feel free to use what I am promoting as an example.
While you're at it, learn how to post a link here at WAHF:
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-34739_20942-201450--,00.html
Because right now you are posting the same misinformation as everyone else.
Learn about and post something different if you want to be productive.
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BobFirestone
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Posts: 115
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2009 15:06
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If you are right and I am wrong explain exactly why the cash gifting program(s) you are promoting are not pyramid schemes.
Show me the difference tell me why the Attorney general of the state of Michigan is wrong?
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TJamMoneyMan
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Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 733
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2009 15:44 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
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BobFirestone: If you are right and I am wrong explain exactly why the cash gifting program(s) you are promoting are not pyramid schemes
What I am promoting, EzyCashGifting, and many other CG models are not pyramid structures because there is no one person, or persons, on top, receiving payouts from people below them.
You only get payouts from those who you directly sponsor.
No one else.
No one below your direct referrals will give you ANYTHING unless your own direct referral does not upgrade to your level (or higher) in the case of EzyCashGifting's plan anyway.
ONE person at the top, with an ever growing base below that ONE person, is what makes for a pyramid structure.
Along with each person trying to establish their own pyramid within/under that same structure.
Pyramids grow geometrically which is what makes them so effective.
And troublesome, if not unethical or illegal.
Do the math on a pyramid structure and you will see how eventually, there is a need for billions and billions of people to join, in order for the people on the lower levels to reap the same rewards.
And even if you can pyramid down to billions of people, who are THEY going to put in their pyramid?
It's easy to see that very quickly, you simply run out of people, on earth anyway, for the bottom members to have their own pyramid.
A pyramid structure is also not illegal in and of itself.
There have to be certain things going on for a pyramid structure to be illegal.
Mainly, there has to be a product involved, and the person has to make a certain percentage from the sale of that product in order for it NOT to be an illegal pyramid.
It's all spelled out on many websites that do a good job of explaining what a pyramid structure is, and when/why it's illegal.
That's why you, those who are making the same misleading posts, and those who will honestly admit that they just don't know, need to INVESTIGATE!
Just do your own research, and think for yourself.
There are many CG plans out there.
The newer, better, revised ones, have taken the time to structure/restructure themselves into a legal and ethical model.
They too have done the research, and have set up LEGAL cash gifting plans in response.
Once they are so properly structured, I personally don't think they can even be accurately called 'cash gifting' anymore.
But that is their basic business model, and what they have come to be known as.
Just don't be foolish enough to think that all cash gifting plans are illegal pyramids.
That's simply not the case.
And I don't claim that MI's attorney general is wrong.
You are just misusing his statements.
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BobFirestone
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Posts: 115
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2009 16:37
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Let me get this straight...
You pay the $5 to join as a level 1.
For you to make your money back and make a profit you need to get 2 people to come in at $5 each.
Is this correct?
Lets say for example you have a 3 people come in at the $5 level one on top of the other. Then a 4th person comes in for $1000 the top level. The money rolls up line until it hits someone who is a "level 8".
Is this correct?
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Newbie Shield
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 2224
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2009 17:10
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TJam,
Cash gifting is definitely illegal. Oftentimes it's largely synonymous with "pyramid".
Sure, it's profitable. But profitable and legal aren't always synonymous.
If there was no money in it, would you argue so strongly?
Not that I don't with you the best. I certainly do 
You might respond to bob. He did make some good points.
~Newbie Shield~
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TJamMoneyMan
Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 733
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2009 20:12 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
Reply
Newbie Shield: Cash gifting is definitely illegal. Oftentimes it's largely synonymous with "pyramid".
Sigh... are we back at 'cash gifting = pyramid?"
Newbie Shield, I just KNOW you know better!!
And I know you don't need to be told to 'do your research'!
So I would expect, since you say 'cash gifting is definitely illegal', that you could give me even ONE example of someone, tried and convicted, solely for the 'crime' of cash gifting.
(NOT pyramids, tax evasion, theft by deception etc.)
Can you?
Didn't think so!
So let's stop with the 'cash gifting is definitely illegal' myth/sound bite, ok?
Newbie Shield: If there was no money in it, would you argue so strongly?
I don't know what, "if there was no money in it", has to do with anything but if you knew me, you'd know I'd argue indefinitely, on just about any topic!
(I think my WAHF posts will bear this out!)
But aren't we are all here at WAHF, basically arguing about (but hopefully discussing) what makes money, and what doesn't, among other things?
Bob is mistaken about EzyCashGifting but I'll address his points:
BobFirestone: You pay the $5 to join as a level 1. For you to make your money back and make a profit you need to get 2 people to come in at $5 each. Is this correct?
Yes, but that depends on what it 'costs' you in time and money to get those referrals.
Your call on what your time is worth, but we all know it takes time, energy, and money (even if only for a computer, internet access, and your morning cup of whatever) to get referrals.
But you make a very useful observation - the next level up from $5 gifting is $10, so a wise gifter would simply use two of those three $5 gifts to pay for the next ($10) level.
Basically this is how ECG works, two gifts will pay for the next gifting level (in two cases it takes 2.5 gifts!).
As you move up the gifting chain, you can still get gifts on the lower levels - but from your direct referrals ONLY!
So the $10 gifter can still receive $5 gifts, but now $10 gifts as well.
BUT, if one of his DIRECT REFERRALS wants to go above the $10 level - to the $25 gifting level, that $10 sponsoring gifter of that referralee, will have to make, or have already made, a $25 gift to HIS sponsor. Otherwise, THAT gifter's DIRECT sponsor, will get the $25 gift.
All of which explains your next point:
BobFirestone: Lets say for example you have a 3 people come in at the $5 level one on top of the other. Then a 4th person comes in for $1000 the top level. The money rolls up line until it hits someone who is a "level 8". Is this correct?
Here's where methinks you have not investigated the EzyCashGifts website.
1) No people can come in 'on top of the other'. EVERYONE pays $5 to get to the first level. And they MUST make gift payouts at each level, on up through the top - the $1000 level (level 8). NO ONE can come in "for $1000 at the top level". And the money definitely does NOT 'roll upline until it hits someone...'
2)AGAIN, EzyCashGifts is not a pyramid structure. Whoever you refer pays YOU, and no one else $5. The rest of the levels cost about double going from $10 up to $1000. You have to make a gift at each level, to your direct sponsor and no one else.
The only time it can 'roll upline' is if you, the direct sponsor, has not gifted at a particular level. And that is only ONE level above it will go - to YOUR direct sponsor.
AND, you get plenty of time/notice, that your referral is going to upgrade, so you know you need to gift at the next level, in order to get that gift (which would otherwise go up one level, or until it reaches a person in the upline who is qualified to receive gifts at that level).
In short, if you gift, one time, at each level, you and ONLY you, will receive gifts at each level, from your direct referrals only. You get NOTHING from ANYONE at levels below your direct referral. Your referral gets everything from his referrals, and those referrals get the same deal.
NO PYRAMID HERE!!!
straight enuf?
And I wish you guys all the best as well!
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Newbie Shield
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 2224
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2009 09:44
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Hi TJam,
Lol, didn't mean to upset you - you're a nice guy.
It is often set up with referrals and bonus levels. That's why I'm saying that it's largely synonymous with a pyramid scheme.
Last I checked the official stance of the Government (I.R.S. I think) it was illegal - though I do see the difference in your own explanation. I won't argue whether or not your explanation makes it legal or not. It's not my cup of tea and I know very little about it.
TJamMoneyMan: I don't know what, "if there was no money in it", has to do with anything but if you knew me, you'd know I'd argue indefinitely, on just about any topic!
Lol, but you do it in an interesting and socially acceptable way. I enjoy it coming from you when you do. You seem to be quite diplomatic and would make a great face-to-face salesman.
Interesting reply to Bob, thanx.
~Newbie Shield~
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TJamMoneyMan
Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 733
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2009 10:25 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
Reply
Newbie Shield: Lol, didn't mean to upset you - you're a nice guy.
Definitely not upset!
But I can see where it might appear that way.
One thing I have learned here at WAHF, it that you have to be careful how you word things in text. It's easy to give the wrong impression - especially when there's a difference of opinion.
I hope folx can understand, and bear with my BS when I get on a rant/rave.
I'm still learning after all!
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Newbie Shield
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 2224
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2009 10:18
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Hi TJam,
I like your rants. You're tactful so have no worries.
~Newbie Shield~
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