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dm356
Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 1
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2008 00:04
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Out of curiosity, for those of you that got the plans, did anyone try making one of these HHO electrolyzers and if so, what were the results?
For those that did see the plans, does it look like something the average Tom, Dick or Harriette would bother attempting, or does it look pretty daunting?
Thanks
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getagrip
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1595
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2008 02:01
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If anyone gives this a shot and actually builds one of the units and tests it out, please PM me (or post your results here). I'd love to promote this product as an affiliate, but I want to make sure it works before I do.
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Aspire
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 101
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2008 09:11
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thepessimist: This is obviously a scam. You'll've paid $50 for piece of paper describing perpetual motion.
Hmmm! - Could be....
I purchased the plans and am in the process of getting all the material to try it for myself. If it works I will be laughing - if not, I will chalk it up to scammers preying on the gullable (me)
By the way, the first part of the plans says it is free to the world, so even though I purchased it, I have already given it to a dozen people in this thread for nothing. Getting too many requests, so I will make it available for FREE download in a day or so.
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matthew6
Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 1
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# Posted: 21 Jun 2008 01:51
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I'm as skeptical as the next person, but I'm not sure how this would violate Conservation of Energy. If I understand correctly, and if this functions as it claims to, it is simply using energy extracted from gasoline, or otherwise obtained to charge a battery, to extract energy stored in water. There is no law that says the amount of energy stored in the water must be less than the amount of energy required to extract it. If there were, we would still be in caves. And we wouldn't even have campfires.
This model is not a closed system. The water doesn't create additional water. In theory, it is expended, along with the gasoline, or electrical charge used to extract the hydrogen from it. Hydrogen of course contains a lot of energy per unit volume.
By the same logic I think I'm seeing applied here, how can you possibly use an electric charge from a battery to extract more energy from gasoline than what is used to extract it? Are you folks implying that the internal combustion engine violates conservation of energy, or am I not following?
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Aspire
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 101
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# Posted: 21 Jun 2008 02:13
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OK - Here are the instructions for the Hydrogen Generator - It is free to anyone wanting it.
Download it from http://www.ecowatch.net.au/downloads/Run_a_car_on_water.zip
Anyone interested in trying it, we should all compare notes here.
Regards
Paul
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kuja
Member
Joined: 3 Jul 2008
Posts: 4
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2008 14:32
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For all of you building from runcaronwater.com 114 page e-book, note: and i am almpost finished. Gap size betneen electrodes is very important and so is coil windings so if your model is not working that is where i would start your trouble shooting. I would not recomind getting parts from an old freezer though they are tempting. I have spent 6 times the under exadurated 200 dollars or less quote. from site and no you can not buy all parts from hardware store. but from an all most finished generator and two beekers of water sience is posible and working.
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purple
Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 24
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2008 23:29
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I haven't done enough research on my own but I do know hydrogen powered cars do exist. Whether the $50 e-book will give you the information you need or just make its author tons of cash is another story.
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JDCruz
Member
Joined: 2 Jul 2008
Posts: 22
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# Posted: 4 Jul 2008 03:15
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Honda already launched its hydrogen car. I am not sure if it's water that they are using as input.
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popeye4671
Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 12
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# Posted: 4 Jul 2008 16:15
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Mike,
If Chrysler, for example, could advertise their vehicles with double their gas mileage for only 50 bucks per unit dealerships would look like Macdonalds at high noon! Love this forum you guys are great!
P.S. I personally think they will work and plan to buy one soon.
Thanks, Dan
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http://popeye4671.waterfuelx.hop.clickbank.net
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Aspire
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 101
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2008 07:54 · Edited by: Aspire
Reply
Any one interested in who is marketing these things complete - Go to E-bay and type in Hydrogen Fuel Cell, or Hydrogen Generator.
There are hundreds of different ones there and after having a look at what is on offer I tend to lean towards the expensive ones.
I found one at Ebay that has great feedback - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/oziworks - No this is not me!!
Still have not had the chance to chat with anyone who has done it and IS using it effectively. Just for the sake of it - why dont we all do a search of regular business with a shopfront and see if these are being sold
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Aspire
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 101
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2008 08:17
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popeye4671: If Chrysler, for example, could advertise their vehicles with double their gas mileage for only 50 bucks
I am pretty sure that all vehicle manufacturers will have oil companies as strategic partners. The oil companies pump up the stuff - The car manufacturers make things that burn the stuff.
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trekkie
Member
Joined: 6 Jul 2008
Posts: 1
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2008 18:38
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For anyone who still isn't convinced that this is a scam, let me try another explanation.
The key point is that you start with water and end with water. First you convert water to HHO (electrolysis), then you convert HHO back to water (combustion). These two processes are chemical opposites of each other, and if one (combustion) releases energy, the other (electrolysis) necessarily consumes the exact same amount of energy. According to the second law of thermodynamics, you will also waste some energy along the way, but even if you didn't, the net energy gain still couldn't be more than 0. For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car
matthew6: ...to extract energy stored in water.
There is no energy extracted from water in this scheme. The energy is stored in HHO (high-energy state), then extracted by converting the HHO back to water (low-energy state). In other words, the fuel is hydrogen, not water.
matthew6: Are you folks implying that the internal combustion engine violates conservation of energy, or am I not following?
A gasoline engine converts gasoline (high-energy compound) into carbon dioxide, oxygen and water (low-energy compounds). Note that those aren't converted back to gasoline. For a full analogy, imagine that someone claims to have built an engine that takes carbon dioxide, oxygen and water, synthesizes gasoline from them, then burns that gasoline. This is not theoretically impossible, but creating gasoline will require more energy than you can extract by burning it.
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kuja
Member
Joined: 3 Jul 2008
Posts: 4
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# Posted: 8 Jul 2008 11:05
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There is a big difference in theory and practice. Why not try to build it your self I am fairly confident you might be surprised about your outcome after the work is finished. But you have to meet the prerequisites of equivalent exchange nothing comes with out a price to be paid.
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040107
Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 328
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# Posted: 8 Jul 2008 12:38
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JDCruz: Honda already launched its hydrogen car. I am not sure if it's water that they are using as input.
I think water is just the by-product going out of the exhaust.
The fuel that would need re-filling would be hydrogen.
In which case would make sense from a environmental point-of-view
but economically would probably would not be much better than
petrol (gasoline) because eventually the oil companies would start
putting up hyrogen filling station.
Unless you have your own hydrogen filling station at home which
will probably cost a good bit.
...still waiting for the "air car"... 
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merik64
Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 1
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# Posted: 18 Jul 2008 17:01
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WOW! I am sick of reading people trying to disprove these systems by stating the conservation of energy laws and such. This only shows that they do not fully understand how the entire system of a car works. To these people turbochargers and superchargers will logically not work since they "take" energy from the engine. There is SOOOO much more to take into consideration. The bottom line is that you will be adding hydrogen to the fuel air mixture which can most easily be compared to adding NOS. Hydrogen burns EXTREMELY well, this is why companies have been researching using it as a PRIMARY fuel for cars, the main reasons they have not succeeded is that the designs call for hydrogen to be stored in tanks at extremely high pressures and also producing hydrogen generally is very costly since hydrogen bonds are among the strongest chemical bonds.
PLEASE STOP POSTING THAT THESE WILL NOT WORK WITH YOUR ONLY BASIS BEING THAT IT DEFIES THE LAW OF CONSERVATION OF ENERGY!
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getagrip
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1595
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2008 00:46
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I see your point, merik64, but rather than saying it will work or won't work is one thing, but actually trying it to see if it will or won't work more important. So...everyone's opinion about it is practically a moot point until they try it out to see what the results are.
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Aspire
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 101
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2008 16:37
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I have no doubt that the Water to HHO process works - It is just that there are many scammers on the internet trying to capitalise on others desperate attempts to survive the trip to the gas station.
The science behin this conversion is there. I do not think that the result comes in the form of a small glass bottle with a bit of baking soda.
This is an interesting YouTube Clip for the sceptics... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6yRn4IAsrU&eurl=http://sortr.com/youtube_play.php?id= %20L6yRn4IAsrU&v=water%20car
[Post edited - Admin]
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BillChechel
Member
Joined: 8 Jan 2008
Posts: 158
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2008 16:59
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I want to try the HHO sytem on my current vehicle.
The only problem is I am trying to find legitimate plans online without paying the $50. I would assume that by now there would be free plans out there.
I am in the auto industry and have most of the materials at hand already. Does anyone know where I can get plans for free?
I am not interested at all in becoming an affiliate. I just want to build the system and see if it actually works.
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Aspire
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 101
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# Posted: 20 Jul 2008 07:43
Reply
Hey Bill,
I purchased them and am giving them free to anyone wanting them.
I gave the download site in an earlier posting on this page.
Download it from http://www.ecowatch.net.au/downloads/Run_a_car_on_water.zip
Paul
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raj
Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 1
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# Posted: 20 Jul 2008 11:12
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The website runyourcaronwater.com is poorly built information because to build the product it would cost at least 750 dollars. This website has a poor support because after repeated emails no response is given. They just want to take your money. Be careful before you spend the money. If you have 500 dollars, buy readymade product available in the market.
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raj
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Aspire
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 101
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# Posted: 20 Jul 2008 16:42
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This guy on YouTube has taken the Hydrogen Generator and is in the process of making it an exact science.
Have a scroll down the page and watch some of his video entries.
There is no doubt that it works.
http://www.youtube.com/user/OriginalUncleNemo
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kuja
Member
Joined: 3 Jul 2008
Posts: 4
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# Posted: 21 Jul 2008 12:24
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raj thanks for the tip but for me it is to late 750 thats not right try closer to $1700. darn tefflon coated wire is $280 for 625 ft spool, or 51 cents a foot. That is not evan covering taps, eching solution $50 hypressure tubing $169 for 20 ft and same with 24'' by 48'' cpvc sheet plastic $169.
Please keep trying we here in Indiana are all most finished with project. My cost every year is $3500 in fuel a year now what is $1700 in relation to freeing my self of energy problems. How many applications can you think of that can run hydrogen on besides a car ?
I Can think of at least 4 and what about next year when gas prices are at 6 dollars a gallon then what? people think things are rough now.! Do not give up just because caust is alitle high on development I am Not till I proove fake or not. I am willing to help anyone with the desire/resolve to develop this project...!!!!
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philt
Member
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2008 04:14
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Anyone have any updates on this yet? I am watching this forum to see if anyone has any success with this.
Thanks
Phil
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Aspire
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 101
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# Posted: 1 Aug 2008 16:54 · Edited by: Aspire
Reply
philt: Anyone have any updates on this yet?
Hi Phil,
I have been doing quite a bit of research on this since first joining this thread.
There is a lot of scepticism about HHO, and in my oppinion this being mainly due to the amount of scams out there.
I have some field tests presently being done to establish the viability and hope to have some interesting results to post soon. In general, the main issues I have found are:
1. HHO generation works if set up properly. The volume of HHO gas required to make a significant difference to your vehicle economy is dependant on the total surface area of the electrodes. If you have a large surface arera, you will produce a reasonable volume. If you have a simple coil of wire, there may be HHO produced, but not in significant quantities to make your fuel bill go down.
2. From the research I have been doing, there are many systems producing 1 ltr of HHO gas per minute - This will give approx 10% to 15% reduction in fuel use. Anything less and it will be a waste of time. There are a few businesses now set up supplying HHO generators to the trucking industry and these produce 1,200 ltrs per hour. Applying this system to cars will give you more than sufficient HHO to run your car completely on HHO. Have a look at this web site http://www.gethydropower.com/index.html
3. Just plugging a HHO generator into your car may not necessarily improve your economy. Some vehicles computerised fuel systems rely on an Oxygen Sensor plugged into your inlet manifold and exhaust to regulate the amount of fuel poured into the engine. When the Oxygen levels decrease or increase, the computer automatically either Leans up - or riches up the fuel/air mixture. There is simple electronic equipment available that allows you to replace the O2 sensors with this, and it allows you to adjust your signal given to the computer thus allowing the economy thing to kick in. The frustrating thing here is that without this equipment, you can put in the best additives, enhancers and hybrid fuel systems but you will end up using the same amount of fuel - *** This only applies to SOME vehicles **** Remember that when burning HHO, the by product of this is water, a higher oxygen level and a lower hydrocarbon and pollution level.
4. When choosing the type of HHO generator, you need to give attention to the power draining requirements of the system. Some go as high as 30A to produce HHO - There are people working on systems that pulse the power to the generator and end up requiring about half an amp to do the same thing. This is very exciting....
Now you have done it - You got me going...... (self restraint kicks in) - When my field tests are complete I will make available the findings to all.
Regards
Paul
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Aspire
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 101
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2008 01:26 · Edited by: Aspire
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There are a lot of sceptics out there regarding hydrogen Generators because there is no set standard developed for these systems, and the effective units are clouded in popularity by the scams.
I have found a guy on YouTube who has made countless hundreds of movies documenting countless experiments. This guy is fantastic and is the science needed behind HHO getting off the ground.
I have just spent three hours watching some of his movies and I was waiting for the hidden ulterior motive - but there isn't one - He is doing it all in the name of benefiting humanity and has even set up a dot org web site so everyone has access to his technical information.
You won't be disappointed, and the sceptics will change their mind. He refuses to sell anything - He gives his innovations away and he proves and explains everything in his movies - Very refreshing....
YouTube - http://nz.youtube.com/zerofossilfuel
Website - http://www.alt-nrg.org
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xoxomarketing
Member
Joined: 5 Aug 2008
Posts: 3
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2008 19:42
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I think it works on the electrolysis of water via power from the battey. The hydrogen is pulled into the intake in addition to the normal feed of gas creating amore combustible hybrid vapor. I know craigslist has lots of people advertising that they will insall the thing for $xxx amount of money. I currenty get 38mpg already and even a 2% increase would be great for me. I will definitely keep an eye on this thread.
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Aspire
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 101
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2008 08:14 · Edited by: Aspire
Reply
xoxomarketing: I think it works on the electrolysis of water via power from the battery
Correct � I have been researching this a great deal.
You have a series of stainless steel electrolysis plates placed together with + and � charges. You also have neutral plates and if you have too many, it either works at a decreased efficiency regardless of power, or you really need to crank up the power to get it to produce sufficient gas to make a difference.
High powered HHO generators will work with straight forward water, lower powered units need an electrolyte to assist.
It has been found that a pulsing DC power supply has a better effect than straight forward constant DC power. This allows you to deliver a higher amperage without the corresponding heat increase you would get with constant voltage.
The type of generator you use determines the total amperage needed to produce gas, and the race is on to develop low power units that still produce enough gas. Typically, running 12v @ 15 to 20 amps in a reasonable unit produces a gas flow of 1 ltr per minute. The more power you pump into it you start getting wasted energy re heat.
There are a few companies producing rigs for trucks producing 1500 ltrs per hour. Theoretically you could run this in a car, but it would consume too much power (and you wouldn't have sufficient space for a large bank of HHO cells)
If you have a car with EFI and oxygen sensors you will also need some electronics that produces a fake Oxygen sensor signal. When you use Hydrogen mixed with your air, you have a full burn within the cylinder resulting in decreased Oxygen in the exhaust. The sensors then automatically riches up your fuel flow to accommodate for this, thus the need to have a O2 bypass unit. There are many manual units on the market around $100 and one company has built a computer system that automatically regulates the 1.5V signal from the O2 sensor � This sells around the $400 mark.
I am skimming the surface here and have a lot more to learn, but believe that they work. Just be mindful of the volume of gas they produce � anything less than 1 ltr per minute is a waste of your time and money. I am presently looking at a computerised system that produces up to 3 ltrs per min from a major reputable company that offers a money back guarantee and has a distribution network in 20 countries (mainly looking after the truck industry)
There is this guy on E-Bay that sells units, but this is his only commercial front and the only feedback on E-Bay is that he delivers promptly. I have sent off several emails to him and he has not bothered getting back to me. Obviously you need to feel comfortable that the person supplying you a unit will give you one that works and you will not be throwing your money away.
In my oppinion, these "Plans" you buy on the internet are simply a scam preying on the hopes of many - I suggest staying away from them. I purchased one set and have listed it in a previous posting on this page for you to download if you wish (FREE)
I found one guy in the US and he is doing a controlled field test with a 1 ltr/min unit with the O2 sensor bypass I mentioned. I hope to have results back soon on this.
I started off sceptical about this. Now after reading heaps of info and sifting through the BS and legit movies on YouTube I now know that it works.
When I have all my test results and info I will post it here.
Regards
Paul
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justlikethat
Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 37
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2008 11:09
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I think this is so cool! I will be watching to see how it turns out for everyone!
Keep us posted!
Victoria
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kuja
Member
Joined: 3 Jul 2008
Posts: 4
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2008 12:34 · Edited by: kuja
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wow nice to see i am not the only person who has been harpping about trying to build systems. difference between practice and theory is very obvious. Thanks to all who put there time and money into development.
I have run out of funds trying to build runcaronwater.com blue prints and i am almost finished. I am willing to help anyone with the nerve to ask me. Where to get parts like the coil premade, stainless steel tubing to spec, cpvc and new potiometers. my advice to all who care to try this project this is not a cheep investment. on a short term scale $1700-$2100 full hydrocar not a hybrid.
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Aspire
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 101
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2008 16:20 · Edited by: Aspire
Reply
kuja: my advice to all who care to try this project this is not a cheep investment. on a short term scale $1700-$2100 full hydrocar
From what i have seen, it is necessary to have a vaccume system extracting the gas from the cell to assist in getting the maximum HHO extraction and an increased pressure flow to the engine.
Question? - On a full HHO system, are you looking at a gas delivery system similar to LPG cars? You obviously will not be able to simply direct the gas into the air intake.
Another Question? - With a complete HHO car, there will be an increased water by product (eg steam for exhaust). Have you thought about increased risk of rusting your exhaust system? Different places on the internet are recommending complete stainless steel exhaust systems when you increase the volume of gas to over 3 litres per minute in vehicles with engines up to 5000cc capacity.
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