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Newbie Shield
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1523
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2008 07:05
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Please abstain from hand-holding PM requests.
I'm getting swamped with those lately. I'm flattered as anyone would be.
However, I give out the same advice via PM that I would via public thread. I don't mind that some of you have asked for mentoring and similar.
I think you know my answer by now: Educate, plan, experiment with free sites, self host, keep learning til death.
Nike says "Just do it!" and that's what I say.
I won't change my tune in a PM. It's the very same tune. So PM won't give you any advantage over what I state in public.
Last, you can get several answers to your inquiries via forum threads. This method is an advantage over PM. Don't be afraid to ask a public question.
You take the tips offered here and you apply them. No one should take any of the steps for you. It is to your own advantage to learn by taking the steps yourselves.
Learning sources are the internet - both paid and free, the library, Amazon and other book stores, etc.
So read and experiment with everything you can get your hands on.
All you have to do is identify what components you need to study and just study them. There is no other way. Forget mentors. They have a single point of view. In a sense, they will handicap you. Self-study and self-experimentation is how a person excels. I've already told you how to do that.
If you purchase a program, READ ALL OF IT! Don't ask a question until you have done that. Have the courtesy to do your own homework before you take up someone else's time.
You have to put in the time and the effort to succeed. That's all you need to know.
I can prove that my approach works. I graduated from two colleges with a final G.P.A. of 4.0 in each case. Furthermore, I succeed on the net. Why? Not because I am brilliant but because I simply put in the time.
Take the time to gain the knowledge and to develop the needed skills.
Time + Effort + Commitment + Patience = Success.
I'm not angry, just a little annoyed. No one will do your required work for you. It has to be you. It's not easy. It's not quick. It takes time. It takes effort. It takes long term commitment. It takes all of your patience.
Don't quit and don't think someone else will do it for you.
Thanx,
~Newbie Shield~
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1194
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2008 09:19
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Newbie Shield: You take the tips offered here and you apply them. No one should take any of the steps for you. It is to your own advantage to learn by taking the steps yourselves.
well written... clap - clap!
And also take responsibility for your own business. Just because you try something that was offered on the forums and it doesn't work for you for some reason, doesn't mean that it was bad advice - don't blame the person offereing the advice -lol
Go until you get it - try and learn until you find your niche - I am a firm believer that the only way to fail in online or network marketing is to quit...
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Marktech
Member
Joined: 8 Jan 2008
Posts: 211
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2008 11:20
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Who else are we supposed to turn to if not Yoda!
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1194
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2008 11:30
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Marktech: Who else are we supposed to turn to if not Yoda!
I believe what Yoda is saying - ask me in public and I will answer in public - answering private pm's takes a lot of time
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tidbits
Member
Joined: 4 Apr 2008
Posts: 25
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2008 16:48
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Bravo!
In a galaxy long ago and far away, I started on this thing called the internet. I knew absolutely nothing! It was really rather pitiful how little I knew.
In spending time on the internet, I learned a lot. Being the frugal (aka cheap) person that I am, I only accessed free sites. As a result of all of the on-line learning, I learned how to code websites using Notepad as my editor.
Things haven't really changed. I still hand code my sites and use free information. As a result of the free information, I've earned several thousand dollars over time. I've never paid for traffic. I did, however, eventually pay for a web host (I moved from free hosting).
The longer I stick with it, the more I learn and the more I learn, the more I earn. So, if I can do it, anyone can. Keep reading in forums and comb the internet with a fine-toothed comb. If you have a question, it is there somewhere available on the internet (for free).
Just stick with it!
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tahtimbo
Member
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2008 17:59
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I agree. I am a newbie at all this and I get a majority of my information from free sites as well (yes, I am also cheap). If I have a question, I try to find the answers on my own. Does this take alot of time? You bet, but I learn in the process. I have made a great many mistakes and have gone down my fair share of rabbit holes, but I learn from each experience. Will I ask for help from all of you? You bet!! I already have. You guys are great. But, I will try to find out on my own first. If I can't find an answer, I guess I'll be bugging all of you.
Thanks for the support
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cybermommy
Member
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 320
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2008 18:05
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What can I say?
Well said Newbie Shield!
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Newbie Shield
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1523
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2008 10:48
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I'm glad that some folks agree. I very much appreciate the elaboration. I hope that others will check in with their own comments as well. I know a few members that also see it this way and I am awaiting their valuable input.
~Newbie Shield~
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MyOwnBoss
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 109
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2008 22:41
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My input: Hold my hand, pleeeeaassseee?
Seriously, there are so many people on this forum who tell people to find a mentor that it shouldn't be a surprise. Once you showed yourself to be a person interested in sharing your experience and helping people out, you became a target for the "help me" (translated - do it for me) crowd.
In a way it's a good thing, since it shows your opinions and knowledge are respected here.
It's funny, but when I was just starting out, I heard the find a mentor advice (usually from the MLM folks) and being the contrary person I am, I interpreted that to mean study, learn, and do your own thing.
Newbie Shield: I'm glad that some folks agree. I very much appreciate the elaboration. I hope that others will check in with their own comments as well. I know a few members that also see it this way and I am awaiting their valuable input.
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1194
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2008 23:31
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This is interesting - I actually don't mind answering pms as I was one that asked a lot of questions myself.... especially if someone wants more specific information about our businesses.
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happywife
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 897
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2008 02:35
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I don't mind PM's either if they are specifically about something that I have recommended.
I could see where it would be annoying if I were being bombarded with general questions that are quite easily found by reading the forum yourself. I'm not - probably means that people don't think I know anything. 
Seriously, if someone has specific questions about SBI or the free affiliate marketing course I recommend, I don't mind a PM. I'm always a little hesitant to over-recommend things in the actual forum for fear of overstepping forum guidelines. I don't have that hesitation when answering a PM.
I remember well how confused and overwhelmed I was when I first started online. I didn't know who to believe or what was legit. I felt completely baffled and would have loved to have someone I knew point me in the right direction. In the end I did - I prayed and the Lord pointed me in the right direction.
Having said all that, I can understand where Newbie Shield is coming from, too. Too many people want instant success without any of the real work. I really don't have much time for those people, either. I do have my own work to do, speaking of which...
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Newbie Shield
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1523
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2008 08:06
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I'm glad to see that some of the folks I had in mind have just contributed to this thread.
PMs have their place and I think that they are a help in the forum setting.
They have many uses. It becomes abuse when someone hasn't made an effort to figure out something before they send off a PM. It's also annoying when someone asks a general question that can easily be answered on the forum.
There's no doubt that it's flattering to be asked a question. I don't mind helping. In fact I enjoy it quite a bit. I feel good when I give advice and it helps someone understand something, do something better, or avoid a costly mistake.
Learning what works and why is also important. There are some things that can be passed on verbally, but having the feel for it can only be had by doing it yourself.
It's good to have a feel for things because you can naturally apply them over and over in different situations. It's a matter of mastery. Take ownership of the information and methods.
Part of the reason I created this post is to help deprogram folks that have been tricked by fake gurus regarding making a ton of money online very quickly and easily.
People should realize who they are competing against. The seasoned veterans do well because they have worked hard by taking the time to learn and experiment. They take education, planning, and tweaking very seriously as they should. They have a "feel" for how things work that was earned through spending a good long time on things.
They've made many mistakes and they've learned from them. They know what works and they have a good idea of how to use their knowledge over and over again. They also know how to adapt it to new situations. Much of it becomes instinctive after a time.
This skill can't be passed on verbally.
The real power of a forum is to ask a question in public and get several different points of view. It's like reading key excerpts from several different authors without having to wade through several books. You get a lot of bottom line juice with minimal fluff.
While it's true that you can get answers to your questions, forums aren't really geared towards complete solutions per se. They are for getting leads. A person asks a question. Folks give feedback. The person who inquired then needs to act on the advice or ask for further clarification. Forums guide, they don't solve.
~Newbie Shield~
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RayvinAndRob
Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 195
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2008 15:36
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Newbie Shield: Please abstain from hand-holding PM requests. I'm getting swamped with those lately. I'm flattered as anyone would be.
That's awesome Newbie. Glad you brought this up.
As MLM mentors, teachers, coaches, Rayvin and I absolutely DO hold the hands of ALMOST anyone who is struggling and asking for help. More often than not, these people were told WHAT to think by the wrong person and the consequences were failure. We take them by the hand and show them HOW to think, not WHAT to think.
We emphasize 'ALMOST ANYONE' because we refuse to work with someone who is not teachable and coachable. They must deserve our time. We will not hand them anything "on a silver platter."
We will NOT do the work for them. In the beginning, before getting seriously involved with anyone, we require them to read our own mentor's 92-page ebook and listen to four recorded audios that we send them. Only IF they complete these tasks do we proceed to help them.
By the way, the ebook and audios iare all free and generic, applicable to ANYONE wanting to succeed in THEIR OWN MLM company. Nor do we charge for our mentoring services. Nor do we mention any companies or products. IOW, we don't take advantage of them. We do not sell them anything. We do not do this to get them to sign up for a program of any kind.
People who are serious about being helped are willing to do what it takes to help themselves. They will gladly read the ebook and listen to the audios. They will meet us half-way and then we'll run a few steps ahead of them, encouraging them to keep the pace up.
It takes a while to develop a good reputation as a mentor, trainor, coach, teacher. You really have to put yourself out there so people have access to all the information about who you are and what you do. People will only deal with people they know, like and trust.
We do MLM mentoring because that's how we are achieving our own success. We chose not to do it alone. That's the long way. We did not want to stumble through years of MLM trial and error. So we found somebody who'd been there and done that and bought the T-shirt.
We learned from a successful mentor who taught us HOW to think and never told us WHAT to think. He showed us how to think about company policies and procedures, business models and what types of behaviors they drive in the field, compensation structures and how to maximize their earning potential, and how to think about people and their different personalities.
As our mentor told us, "Success leaves clues." And, "Success leaves footprints in the sand that you can follow."
We're greatful to our mentor who guided us safely through the minefield of MLM on our way to great, life-changing success. And we're greatful to him that we now have something of real VALUE to share with anyone seeking for the same success we earned through our own due diligence.
As Newbie Shield has said,
Newbie Shield: Time + Effort + Commitment + Patience = Success.
A successful and reputable mentor can save you years of failure and frustration. For example, if I wanted to create a squidoo lens, I'd ask somebody who could show me a few tricks of the trade, someone already successful at building Squidoo lenses.
Thanks again for raising the issue, Newbie Shield.
Rob & Rayvin Nyte
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Source of Influence-- All our philosophy is dry as dust if it is not immediately translated into some act of living service.(Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi)
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dmitch31
Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 209
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2008 13:28
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Hey Newbie Shield,
I realize you may be a little annoyed, but it was a great motivational post nonetheless! You also made some very good points that I've never heard anyone else communicate before. Thanks for the dose of reality.
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Newbie Shield
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1523
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# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 09:07
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Open, Make, Hemjoe, and others, Can you comment on the value of the things raised in this post?
Mountainmom: Answering PMs about your own business is a good policy, especially if someone has signed up under you. When that happens, it's actually an ethical obligation to at least give them some guidance to start with. What about the other issues raised in this post. How do you feel about them?
Marktech: I am here for everyone. I wanted to point out the value of learning quite a bit on "your own". It is a liberating and empowering experienced that a whole handful of top mentors could never touch. I just don't want folks to cheat themselves by relying too much on external assistance.
TheGuild: I'm with you. Those who work hard and are committed have definitely earned the right to receive further guidance. I'm all for that.
I also agree that how to think is the best approach. It's the engineering approach and it can be applied over and over again. A method is quite valuable.
Thanx for commenting.
Tidbits: I'm very happy for you. Nothing pays off better than teaching and learning for yourself. It's nice to soak up information and then experiment with it. BTW, I still use notepad every day as one of my main editors. I love notepad :)
tahtimbo: It's good to make mistakes and then tweak things so that they end up working well. Spending the time to learn things is an investment. Once a person invests, they tend to absorb the knowledge better because they are more focused and they have specific things in mind.
When their questions get answered, they don't forget it as easily and they see to it that their invested time pays off by applying what they have learned. The knowledge sinks in much deeper and they are more likely to apply it in a useful way. You have a great attitude.
MyOwnBoss: You're right, newbies have a tendency to lean on the experienced. HappyWife is right in saying that it's scary to be a newbie and that newbies need guidance.
The problem is that newbies panic too easily. The result is that they often end up taking specific advice rather than learning how to learn or learning general approaches. If they receive too much hand-holding, they either skip the trees or the forest. Both are desperately needed for success, especially long term. They handicap themselves without knowing it.
It's good that you study, learn, and do your own thing. You'll be one of the few that last.
HappyWife: I agree that it is very scary at first even though my "first " was over 10 years ago (site still up and doing well). Back then they didn't have much on the web or in books for making money online. I didn't allow that to bother me. I read a bunch of marketing books and related books.
Some of them touched briefly on using the internet to make money. A very small handful of ugly home pages had bits and pieces of vague suggestions. I did get lucky in that I found a few crumbs on SEO. That was helpful. I joined this forum last year to make my knowledge current. I've been reading a lot of sites since then and I am still very busy.
Mentors can be helpful, but it's good to join a program, read books, read sites, and discuss things on forums. I like the forum format because it provides the opportunity to learn by reading and asking questions. It also provides near ideal conditions for teaching, which I love to do.
I considered teaching Information Technology in the recent past. If it didn't pay so little and cut into my free time so much, I would have taught for a few years. I did tutor several students while I attended both schools. That was fulfilling. The cool part about that is once they realized that they could get good grades simply by putting in the time, they were able to accomplish A's and B's consistently.
That was and is the key - putting in the time (and truly understanding the material). They realized that they could actually do 99.9% of it themselves and they felt very empowered and confident. Owning the knowledge is empowerment and you know this because you do quite well by putting in the time and owning the knowledge.
dmitch31: Thanx. I'm glad that you are with Wealthy Affiliate. It's one of the best programs out there. How are you liking the program?
How do you feel about the benefits of doing most of your own research once you've received tips on what a person might investigate? Are you learning things by trial and error that didn't go the way you thought they would after you learned the theory? Do you see value in experimentation?
~Newbie Shield~
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1194
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# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 09:27
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Newbie Shield: They've made many mistakes and they've learned from them. They know what works and they have a good idea of how to use their knowledge over and over again. They also know how to adapt it to new situations. Much of it becomes instinctive after a time. This skill can't be passed on verbally
That is so true - so many people want to be given a guarantee that this or that will work for them... It just doesn't work that way!
Trial and error is how most of us got to where we are at today - and the really funny thing is that some folks get all bent out of shape if they spend $39 on something and then it turns out to be a farse...
Let's face it, if we are wanting to be 'work at home' business people - we need to start thinking like business people think and a huge part of successful business folk's lives are spent taking risks...
The world will not stop spinning just because we lost a few bucks in a business venture - believe me, I once thought it had, but it kept spinning and we are still on it - lol
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