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drknlvly6781
Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 30
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2009 21:32
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I know this probably isn't the section for this, but I couldn't figure out where to put this. I just had a question on what to do in this situation.
For the past month, I have been doing some freelancing in article rewriting. This is where you take an article, and change it around some for reposting. A lot of people do this in order to post articles for their business, as there are always plenty of requests for this in the site that I am. Since it is so popular, I figure that I can use this to my own advantage, by researching articles that are related to my business through keywords, and rewriting them to be my own.
But my question is, are there any guidelines that I should follow in rewriting these articles. I know that I would have to change the titles of course, and I have software that shows me content matching. But how many words should I set it for? I am really lost about this, as I have never done rewriting for myself. Do you have any ideas?
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happywife
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 873
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2009 00:11
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I'm pretty sure that the software that rewrites articles is unreliable and not something you would want to use for your own business.
From what I've read from others who've tried it, the article turns out to be much like jibberish.
Why not just read a few articles about a subject and then re-write it in your own words? That way your own personal "voice" will come through and you won't have to worry about the number of words to change, etc.
Blessings,
Angie
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Newbie Shield
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1457
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2009 07:18
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Hi drknlvly6781,
HappyWife is right. Most spinners do spew trash and it's best to study up and write from scratch. There's nothing wrong with being inspired by one or more existing articles but running someone else's stuff through a spinner is theft.
Just read enough to educate yourself on the topic and write from your own mind. That's called inspiration and it's ethically viable.
To better understand the concept just put yourself in the author's shoes. Would you like it if you worked hard to create an article and someone took it, ran it through a spinner, and called it their own?
Furthermore, you owe it to your audience to know what your talking about and spinners prevent you from learning your topic.
Same would be true with manually changing bits and pieces and then calling it your own.
~Newbie Shield~
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drknlvly6781
Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 30
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2009 13:08
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Actually, the software I use is not a spinner. It doesn't do the writing for me. It simply allows me to re-write the article for myself, then I can press a button that shows me anywhere where I have copied the original text word for word for four words or longer. So it is me doing the writing, the software only checks my work. Any suggestions now that you know what the software does?
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A8ch
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 345
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2009 13:57 · Edited by: A8ch
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Hello drknlvly6781,
happywife: Why not just read a few articles about a subject and then re-write it in your own words? That way your own personal "voice" will come through...
Newbie Shield: Just read enough to educate yourself on the topic and write from your own mind.
I echo the above sentiments.
Writing can leave a tremendous impression on readers. If your articles are perceived to be weak, and nothing more than a compilation of keywords and keyphrases with some occasional content, readers will eventually avoid your work when they see your by line.
At that point it wouldn't matter if the article was created with assistance from a piece of software, or it was simply a poorly written original work. From the readers point of view, if it doesn't measure up, there'll be no follow up.
However, if your articles are well researched, truly informative and presented in a style that allows your passion, personality and sincerity to show through, readers will appreciate that and notice you. Your articles will impress them. You'll come across as genuine and strong, and they'll start looking for other stuff you've written.
You'll get much more mileage from the latter approach.
Hermas
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drknlvly6781
Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 30
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2009 14:48
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Thank you, that does help a lot. Any other suggestions?
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NTC
Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 339
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2009 19:31
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I know this is time consuming, but I write my articles from scratch every time.
And, absolutely there is a steady improvement in my content.
Still, I have a lot to improve on, but practice makes perfect.
Often, I research the topic, reading other articles for ideas.
What you may do is make dramatic changes too.
This is just my method.
Happy writing!
Victoria
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seg7575
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Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 5
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2009 19:32
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I believe reading articles written by others on a particular area with the sole intention of writing yours should only be based on the reality that you need a guildline.I will suggest you read just a few ones,take note of their keywords and work on building yours with the inflows of personal words of expression.With this, you will save yourself the guilt you might suffer from calling someone else work yours.
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drknlvly6781
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Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 30
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2009 20:09
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Thanks NTC. The only reason I am looking at this avenue for article writing is that the opportunity, although great, has been seriously undermarketed. I am working closely with the admin of the program to get some things out there, so we can have new information in the search engines when people look it up.
My method is almost like writing from scratch. The existing article only gives me a start. Before I consider it finished I gear it towards the ideas of my opportunity, and put my own voice to it. When I am done it is nothing like the original article.
The reason I posted this discussion is to get some feedback on what I am doing, some tips I should follow. But everyone who has posted has been a great help. Thanks!
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Newbie Shield
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1457
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2009 07:58 · Edited by: Newbie Shield
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NTC: I know this is time consuming, but I write my articles from scratch every time. And, absolutely there is a steady improvement in my content. Still, I have a lot to improve on, but practice makes perfect.
NTC raised another good reason to avoid spinners and re-writers. Thanx NTC. You'll continue to improve with time and it really does take time to become an excellent writer.
DRK - When ever you plug someone else's work into a re-writer, a spinner, or if you make manual changes without the use of a similar piece of software, you're stealing someone else's hard work. It doesn't matter that the end result is "nothing like the original article".
I'm sure we can all agree that theft is a breach of ethics. Therefore, what you propose is unethical. You've come here to ask others to help you justify your role in assisting in the development of and selling of a tool of theft.
As Hermas and HappyWife essentially pointed out, your voice will neither be consistent or convincing and those viewing the articles will be turned off by it. Consistent voice is critical in establishing a familiar style associated with a specific author.
Consistency and the ability to persuade become even more of an issue as you use the works from several different authors, which is undoubtedly what you intend to do. So now you're magnifying inconsistency exponentially as you "re-write" the works of several different authors.
That whole thing is every bit as foolish as it is unethical. It's a sleazy practice that pollutes the net with junk.
There's no shortcut to writing. You're only cheating yourself, your re-writer customers, the original authors, and your viewers when you use a re-writer or a spinner.
No one wants to wade through several versions of the same article on article directories or on SERPs. Have the decency to draw the line and remain on the right side of it.
Ethics first.
I hope that you don't intend to promote your cheating tool on this forum. I'm sure you'd meet quite a bit of resistance if you did.
~Newbie Shield~
Edited to add an "a".
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aplina
Member
Joined: 5 Nov 2007
Posts: 251
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# Posted: 19 Jan 2009 12:07
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its always best to do your own voice as everyone has said. you want to be different and an expert which is good for your biz.
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luckey4321
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Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 8
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2009 18:44
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Great information! I was searching on the internet today and ran into some new software called Quick Article Pro that basically spits out articles for you on various subjects.
Any thoughts?
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Homeboy
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Joined: 4 Feb 2008
Posts: 219
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2009 20:03
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luckey4321: Quick Article Pro
I'd have to look into it, but the name alone makes me highly suspicious. 
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Sonni
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Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 309
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2009 21:22
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I write all my articles from scratch but I do research EZA for ideas and to get some facts on things I may not know. I also use ideas and facts from other sources. Maybe later on when I'm a better writer I will have a ton of ideas and know more facts, but for now I need a little help.
Sonni
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PavelBecker
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Joined: 1 Feb 2009
Posts: 11
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# Posted: 2 Feb 2009 19:19
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Drknlvly6781,
I'm sorry that you had to go through all these rude comments and remarks. For a second there I thought I was on the Righteous Journalists forum, but then I scrolled up and turned out I was still at WAHF.
You had a very simple question and instead of a simple answer you got humiliated and laughed at. I'm sorry. You, obviously, didn't deserve it.
This is an Internet Marketing forum! For an Internet Marketer an article is just an information piece. A set of words on a certain subject with a certain percentage of targeted key words, a faceless text file. It's not an art, it's not a journalism, it's not a literature contest!
It's just a camouflaged sales page with the only mission - to make the reader click the link in the resource box and make him buy your product.
It has absolutely nothing to do with an actual article from a newspaper or a magazine.
All this ethics talk might make sense if there was no monetary reword from all our "articles".
If somebody feels like an "educator" - how about you remove any links from your resource box and sign your article with only your name! Then we can talk about ethics and how helpful and informative your articles are.
Drknlvly6781!
There is nothing wrong with what you are doing! It's a standard way of generating an article for our purposes.
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A8ch
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 345
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# Posted: 3 Feb 2009 13:45
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PavelBecker: For an Internet Marketer an article is just an information piece. A set of words on a certain subject with a certain percentage of targeted key words, a faceless text file.
Hi Pavel,
To dismiss a marketing article as "just an information piece" or simply "a set of words on a certain subject", while technically correct, undervalues the true importance and usefulness of this unique tool, and undermines the efforts of skilled article writers.
The difference between a set of words on a certain subject, and a well written, engaging article, can be as glaring in contrast as a paint-by-number picture compared to an original painting. One follows a predetermined pattern and is quite elementary, while the other relies on skill, knowledge and creativity to craft something uniquely beneficial and superior.
PavelBecker: It's not an art...
I'd say that the first three letters of the word "article" playfully contradict that assertion. 
PavelBecker: it's not a journalism...
A compelling article utilizes basic writing skills, a working knowledge of grammar and syntax, the ability to research any subject, and then clearly convey accurate, reliable information, news and ideas to a targeted readership. Those same elements are required in journalism.
PavelBecker: it's not a literature contest!
By itself, article writing does not rise to the level of literature in the strict sense of the word, but there is definitely a competitive component in play. The very nature of marketing involves competition.
PavelBecker: It's just a camouflaged sales page with the only mission - to make the reader click the link in the resource box and make him buy your product.
Most reputable article distributors frown on sale pages that masquerade as articles and will reject them. They place a high value on useful content and encourage articles that are informative and original. Their editorial guidelines warn against self-serving URLs in the article body. These are to be restricted to the resource box.
PavelBecker: It has absolutely nothing to do with an actual article from a newspaper or a magazine.
The print media has long ago established its credibility as a source of information. The Internet is the new kid on the block, and for that reason we ought to insist on delivering consistent high value if this medium is to mature into an equally reliable resource.
PavelBecker: All this ethics talk might make sense if there was no monetary reword from all our "articles".
Why should a writer lower her ethical standards because she expects a return on her published work? It's not a one-way street. The reader also expects to get value from the article content that's provided. Seems like a fair exchange to me.
PavelBecker: If somebody feels like an "educator" - how about you remove any links from your resource box and sign your article with only your name! Then we can talk about ethics and how helpful and informative your articles are.
I think the above statement entirely misses the objective of article marketing. This is the Information Age and education is one of the natural attributes of information. Regardless of a writer's motives, at the very least there ought to be an educational/informative component to every published article; something useful for the reader to absorb.
It's part of the give that precedes the get.
It's not unreasonable for someone to give high quality content up front in exchange for a benefit in the future. Isn't that the whole thrust of article marketing anyway? Otherwise, what's the incentive for the writer, the reader and the article distributor?
Hermas
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Vishal P. Rao
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 936
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# Posted: 3 Feb 2009 23:32
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I couldn't agree with you more Hermas
Excellently put!
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PavelBecker
Member
Joined: 1 Feb 2009
Posts: 11
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2009 03:44
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Hermas,
Your opinion is absolutely understandable and there will be a lot of people who will support it.
I actually feel naked and exposed after you took my post apart into a bunch of pieces.
Allow me to tell you this story, though.
When I just came here, I started working construction as most immigrants.
We were installing vinyl siding and after I learned the trade my crew would always be the best. I demanded the highest quality from my guys and would make them tear down the entire wall and re-side it in order to be absolutely perfect.
There was this builder who we would side the houses for for a few years in a row. And again, my quality was just like in the text book - unprecedented.
This one time we were to busy and he had to use some other crew - two rednecks with one busted step-ladder, one of them was my former supervisor who was well-known for being a useless idiot when it comes to a vinyl siding installation. Every time he screw something up and I would point it out to him, he would say "I don't care! Can't see it from my house, all right?"
So this time his crew sided the house and got paid exactly the same money as I would.
I went to check out the job after they were done and it took me just a few minutes to find a whole bunch of ridiculous screw-ups. I didn't even have to look for them, they were right there in my face when I just approached the house.
So the builder was there and I asked him if he was disgusted by this quality and if he finally understands what a unique people my employees are.
He said that the quality was exactly the same and he doesn't understand what I'm talking about.
After that I scaled down to what we call "production quality" - visually almost identical for the consumer, but much less time-consuming for me. That's where I was able to stop working physically myself and finally started making money.
Another example.
I enjoy cooking a lot and I would often invite my guys over and cook something impressive and we would have a good time and play some pool and have a few drinks.
That particular time I cooked, I think, Pollo Alla Rustica, elaborate dish that takes knowledge and time to cook and present accordingly.
When I served it, two guys immediately requested ketchup.
Like if they were in a Burger King eating French fries for 99 cents!
It would've been less offensive if they would've just stood up and pissed in their plates!
I bet they would have been as satisfied if I gave them just some lame hot dogs!
That was another time when I made a decision to stick with a "production quality".
When it comes to articles - I've written articles myself for which I received an "otta-boy" from published writers, and I've also outsourced article-writing to different groups of people with different price-tags and different levels of quality. The worst case was a bunch of very inexpensive writers from India who supplied me with a few sets of fraises, each of which would be a very properly-built English sentence, but all together they would be just a senseless garbage. All of those "writers" would advertise themselves as "article writers."
It's great that you are so passionate about the subject and you know how to express yourself and you have actually interesting ideas and thoughts, but I honestly believe that for our purposes the "production quality" of articles will do just fine.
Average Internet marketer would have difficulties to come up with "a well written, engaging article". We are not journalists and we rarely possess the skill.
Most of us are not writers and when we are trying to achieve particular results with article submission and have to write large volumes of articles I seriously doubt that the final results will be very impressive from the art stand point, but they will do just fine for our purposes.
It obviously will depend on the niche you are working and therefore the clientele that you have to deal with.
I'd like to think of an article (in our case) as just a format of a sales page (if you don't like using the term "sales page" here, lets call it "a-bunch-of-visual-or-auditory-triggers-designed-to-make-a-person-click-the-link-and- make-us-a-few-bucks") required by the publisher we are working with in each particular case: they accept articles - we convert it into an article, they want video - we convert it into a video file, pod cast - there you go, press-release - we can do it as well.
I still cook complex meals for my wife and when I do some repairs around the house I'm very precise, but for everybody else - "production quality."
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Vishal P. Rao
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 936
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2009 04:36 · Edited by: Vishal P. Rao
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PavelBecker: Most of us are not writers and when we are trying to achieve particular results with article submission and have to write large volumes of articles I seriously doubt that the final results will be very impressive from the art stand point, but they will do just fine for our purposes.
You need not be a writer to write a 500-600 word article on the subject you are passionate about. Unfortunately it has become a number's game and therefore the urgency to churn as many production quality articles as possible.
PavelBecker: but they will do just fine for our purposes.
I really don't get what exactly you mean by purposes:
* Get your article published
* Presell the reader or...
* Get a few curious clicks
Other than the third purpose, I don't think the production quality articles can ever achieve the top 2, which is actually what an article ought to do - get published and presell your reader.
If you spend some time here in the forums, you'll come across members who are here just to make production quality posts and members who are passionate and make quality posts. Over a period of time those who make production quality posts get tired of seeing no results and pretty soon leave the forum. The passionate ones stay and may have discovered the secret in the process.
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Newbie Shield
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1457
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2009 10:28
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Hi Hermas (and PavelBecker below),
Nicely put as usual. I agree with all of it. I think that a writer should make every attempt to give it their best regardless of the gig. Ethical behavior shouldn't be "rewards-based".
Our readers do in fact have a moral claim upon us. We should deliver quality, original writing. We should be honest about our products on our landing pages. Others owe it to us and it follows that we owe it to them.
Hi PavelBecker,
Interesting reasoning, thanx.
There's nothing wrong with making these observations and feeling the way you do. In fact, your perceptions are likely to be quite accurate and it's natural to feel that way as a result.
It's very difficult to be decent when those around us are not only acting less than decent but praising it. Same is true with putting out quality work when you know from experience that you can get away with less.
However, it doesn't matter how others behave. That's their own business and we might all try to resist the active and passive influence it may have on us - at least insofar as our own words and actions are concerned.
Each man and woman has to answer to him/herself. They also have to be comfortable looking others in the eyes in regards to their past words and deeds as well as those that are currently in the works.
Furthermore, each person always represents their own group - usually composed of family, friends, and coworkers.
When you get very old and begin to fade, you'll want to look back on your life and feel good about avoiding bad speech and doings. You'll feel even better if you did so even though there was a personal cost because you were being true to ethics and to yourself.
It's not that you have to be taught this, it's that hearing it once in a while is good for everyone no matter how evolved a person may be.
It rings true, does it not? We can't deny it.
Stealing the works of others and making a profit from it is always wrong. Is there an argument against that?
If you pay for the materials and manpower for a siding job and once it's done, a different crew gets paid for it and you get nothing, is it the right way?
Same is true with the writing or musical works of others. Same is true with everything. Am I wrong?
The internet is terribly polluted with trash because of the mainstream attitude of online marketers and certain tools the speed up the process and encourage it even more such as spinners and rewriters.
But it doesn't have to be that way? Can't a few of us encourage people to consider ethics in what ever you do?
Thieves, the greedy, and the selfish all make life far more hellish than it should be. This is true both online and offline and has been since time immemorial. There should always be a counter-movement to these atrocities. There always will be.
I don't believe in a letter-of-the-law attitude as that is for mindless cowards. But I do believe in being decent regardless of how others are behaving.
We are responsible for our own words and deeds and we all owe it to this forum to keep this place as clean and scam-free as possible.
Welcome to the forum.
~Newbie Shield~
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A8ch
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 345
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2009 17:02 · Edited by: A8ch
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PavelBecker: It's great that you are so passionate about the subject... but I honestly believe that for our purposes the "production quality" of articles will do just fine.
Here is an expression I use quite often and I regularly apply
its principles to many situations: "Sufficient is enough."
It is that point when I determine that I've done enough to get
a desired result, and that doing any more would not materially
improve the outcome.
For example:
I can kill a fly with a simple fly swatter, or I can use a bat.
Either approach would result in the fly's demise, but one is
obviously sufficient to do the job, while the other is overkill.
(No pun intended!)
I'd say that your "production quality" mentality is a reflection
of my "sufficient is enough" attitude. So we are essentially
reading from the same sheet of music. Now, when we apply
our templates to article marketing, the default standard should
satisfy the levels of value, quality and ethics that all the players
expect.
PavelBecker: I still cook complex meals for my wife and when I do some repairs around the house I'm very precise, but for everybody else - "production quality."
In other words, you insist on a higher production quality for
the meals you cook for your wife and repairs you make to your
house, than you do on other matters. That's fair enough!
Hermas
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