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dimave
Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 30
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2007 06:33 · Edited by: dimave
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Sean, makemoneyonline, I am with you too.
I clarified it with Mike and he explained the issue. Its clear to me.
If you have a look at the HTML source code for netsalaries.com and compare it with thewealthypages.com you can see that the code is totally different.
Its easy to tell if one site copied the code from the other by simply looking at the source code.
You can tell that different HTML software was used to write the site's code.
The sites are coded in different languages apparently. (I'm just getting to grips with HTML, but there is php, asp and others as well that I dont really understand).
If I choose to mimic CNN.com's layout style but coded everything from myself (not that I can) and created the graphics from scratch I don't see a problem with it. It just means I have a liking for CNN.com's layout. But it would be a problem if I saved the whole CNN.com page via my web browser, then just went in and replaced the content with my own.
You can then easily tell if my site was copied wholesale from CNN.com by looking at my HTML code and the names of my graphics. If they are the same, you know I've just lifted CNN.Com's code and graphics.
By applying this test the HTML and graphics files are unique for netsalaries.com. Even though I took Mike's word for it, he explained that you can apply this test to see if one site has copied code from another.
My conclusion is that while the design is not unique or original netsalaries.com has not copied code or graphics but created their own.
I would wholeheartedly disagree with some of the claims made in this thread.
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dimave
Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 30
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2007 06:56 · Edited by: dimave
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Whether or not this is the same guy who went to prison or not is definately questionable
Its not just "questionable" it is a blatant lie suggested by someone earlier in this thread.
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Sean Byrne
Member
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 40
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2007 07:50
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Then that is settled then....
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getagrip
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1592
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2007 10:29
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Its not a "blatant lie" - I originally found the thread at http://scam.com and simply reported what I found there here.
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JCP
Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2007 11:24 · Edited by: JCP
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getagrip.... it is obvious that you are promoting the wealthy affiliate, and when you make a statement like that you should be ready to back it up and NOT blame a diffrent source.
That guy lives in Austrailia Mike doesn't nor has he lived there.
I know which thread you are talking about from scam.com and It is rediculious. http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=21865
Scam.com is really a playing ground, for people to say things that are unwarranted.
Quoting: getagrip Its not a "blatant lie" - I originally found the thread at http://scam.com and simply reported what I found there here.
That was not a report, it was a manipulitative and well thought out plan to dis-credit and stain the integrity and reputation of Mike Andrews, and to promote The Wealthy Affiliate.
If I were you I would be very carefull about your acusations, and you reports especially when they are hear say and unfounded...
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JCP
Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2007 11:42
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Holly why do you say that is is going to become a monthly membership site?
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Sean Byrne
Member
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 40
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2007 11:51
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Quoting: JCP getagrip.... it is obvious that you are promoting the wealthy affiliate, and when you make a statement like that you should be ready to back it up and NOT blame a diffrent source. That guy lives in Austrailia Mike doesn't nor has he lived there. I know which thread you are talking about from scam.com and It is rediculious. http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=21865Scam.com is really a playing ground, for people to say things that are unwarranted. Quoting: getagrip Its not a "blatant lie" - I originally found the thread at http://scam.com and simply reported what I found there here. That was not a report, it was a manipulitative and well thought out plan to dis-credit and stain the integrity and reputation of Mike Andrews, and to promote The Wealthy Affiliate. If I were you I would be very carefull about your acusations, and you reports especially when they are hear say and unfounded...
Well said JCP...
Your dead right.... You need to be careful when you read such things on sites like Scam.com. It is a play ground and using that site for facts or whatever will leave your head in a mess!
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dimave
Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 30
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2007 12:39 · Edited by: dimave
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I used to visit scam.com a lot before. I just realised that the site is itself a big scam because anyone can post any bullsh1t and raise a wave of alarm and suspicion that is totally unjustified.
Given that this thread is titled "profit lance vs wealthy affiliate" what I'd like to know is that if someone buys wealthy affiliate through a signature link on this thread, how much commission would one make? A hefty $180 if a person remained a member for one year? That's a big commission.
Personally, I wouldn't do it, but to someone else that $180 (at least) could just be worth spreading bullsh1t for.
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Sean Byrne
Member
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 40
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2007 12:46
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Quoting: dimave I used to visit scam.com a lot before. I just realised that the site is itself a big scam because anyone can post any bullsh1t and raise a wave of alarm and suspicion that is totally unjustified.
Totally agree there with you my man!
Quoting: dimave Personally, I wouldn't do it, but to someone else that $180 (at least) could just be worth spreading bullsh1t for.
Again.. totally.. There are so many chancers out there... I got sucked into so many scam before... Its amazing!
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JCP
Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2007 13:07
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To clarify what was said about PL becoming a Membership" course... This is sraight from an email I just got from Mike.....Because of my curiosity.....
Hey Mike
I was wondering I saw a post that PL may change to a paid membership site? IS this true, because I thought that you said that it would never go that way? That we would never pay anything more... Just wondering....How have you been stranger? Is your daughter doing better?
JCP
Jill hi there.
That will not apply to any existing members.
Only to new members,
that's if I decide to go down that route. I have many considerations
to make still.
I've been great, daughter's much better.
Regards
Mike
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makemoneyonline
Joined: 3 Sep 2006
Posts: 824
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2007 14:39
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Quoting: JCP Holly why do you say that is is going to become a monthly membership site?
It says on the profit lance homepage now.
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getagrip
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1592
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2007 00:46 · Edited by: getagrip
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Quoting: JCP That was not a report, it was a manipulitative and well thought out plan to dis-credit and stain the integrity and reputation of Mike Andrews, and to promote The Wealthy Affiliate.
First of all, I'm not known in this forum as being someone who manipulates or deceives others. I have made over 437 posts in this forum, and many of those post involve helping people avoid scams.
Since someone has questioned my motives and falsely assused me of manipulation, I'm going to have to go someplace where I haven't gone before, and that is bring up the subject of affiliate commissions. Before I do that, I want to start out by explaining why I purchased Profit Lance in the first place. I decided to invest in Profit Lance for three reasons:
1. People in this forum gave it high marks and great reviews.
2. I'm an affiliate marketer, and yes, I do earn commissions on product sales from my website. Based on the reviews I had read, Profit Lance seemed like a good quality product to promote, and I was hoping to promote if from my website.
3. Even though I could have promoted Profit Lance without reviewing it, I decided it would be worth spending $77 since I could personally review it.
If you aren't familiar with how affiliate marketing works, an affiliate is someone who markets products in exchange for a commission. I really hate to get into the numbers, and won't get into exact figures, but what most people do not realize is that Profit Lance pays affiliates over $40 in commissions for new sign ups. As an affiliate, this is the kind of product you WANT to promote.
Yes, I do earn commissions on Wealthy Affiliate sales (less than $15 per sale), but I'm not guaranteed to earn more than that, as people can cancel before the end of their first month. Of course, some people, like Dave B, who is a full time internet marketer, stick around Wealthy Affiliate for more than a year...because when you are making a full time living online like Dave B, your $29.99 a month investment for Wealthy Affiliate is pretty much covered...
Having said this, I don't think that the people who promote Profit Lance promote it "just" for the money. Its a great product, and people like to promote products they believe in. So, if someone purchases Profit Lance through your link, its a win-win situation: you win because you get a nice commission, and you know that the person who purchased it wins because they get a great product.
After I purchased Profit Lance, I was planning to update my website and rank Profit Lance as my number 2 product behind Wealthy Affiliate...but then as I read more of the tutorials, I started to feel really disturbed because of possible Copyright violations.
To illustrate how I felt about Profit Lance at that point, imagine purchasing an Ipod on eBay for only $25, and thinking you got a good deal, and then watching a program on Dateline about stolen Ipods being sold on eBay for $25.
You might not be able to PROVE that the Ipod you just purchased was stolen, but you might start to suspect that perhaps the seller of your Ipod was guilty of distributing stolen Ipods. If you were to do an internet search and discovered that someone with the SAME NAME as the eBayer who sold you the Ipod had recently been released from jail, you might put two and two together and think that perhaps this person was the same person who sold you what might be a stolen Ipod.
When I discovered that my Profit Lance membership came with websites that LOOKED EXACTLY LIKE the ones that came with my Wealthy Affiliate membership, I knew that my suspicions about possible copyright violations in the Info Products, SEO, and ironically, COPYRIGHT sections of Profit Lance were valid.
Now, someone said that what Mike Andrews did with the Wealthy Affiliate review templates was perfectly acceptable. I whole heartedly disagree.
Take a at the little details of the pages. For instance, take a look at shadow on the right and left of the page, and the height AND color of the main menu headings, and the thin verticle line that is to the right of the menu.
Now open up BOTH TheWealthyPages.com and Netsalaries.com in an HTML editor, save each website in a folder on your desktop, and compare things a little closer.
The websites are nearly identical, except Netsalaries is slightly modified (narrower), and you can't really see that with the naked eye. Even the names of the files are similar:
TheWealthyPages: main_shadow_left, main_shadow_right
Netsalaries: shadleft, shadright
Guess what? Both of these files are 15 X 15 pixels. That's the same file folks...if that's not plaigerism, then I don't know what is...and Carson and Kyle weren't exactly jumping for joy when they found out about it.
But really, this isn't really about Wealthy Affiliate vs Profit Lance, because I could promote them both from my website and earn a guaranteed $40 commission for each Profit Lance sale I make.
Perhaps I used bad judgement when I thought that the Mike Andrews from Australia was the same guy who wrote Profit Lance, but this is totally irrelevant...the fact that he can justify going behind someone's back and practically duplicating their website without informing the website's owners about what he is doing says plenty about his character...and its even worse considering he either is or was a Wealthy Affiliate member.
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makemoneyonline
Joined: 3 Sep 2006
Posts: 824
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2007 02:39
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SIGHHHHH.. sure would be nice if Mike was a member of this forum
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getagrip
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1592
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2007 02:58 · Edited by: getagrip
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Sure would be nice if Mike would do his own work and not copy other websites WITHOUT PERMISSION from the owners. But when you do stuff like that, people expose you for who you really are. He tried to be sneaky but he got caught AND HE KNOWS THIS.
Once again, this isn't a Wealthy Affiliate vs Profit Lance thing. Rather, this is about exposing some of the unethical practices about someone who should have used better judgement before "borrowing" from others without permission.
Its all outlined in previous posts - but its up to you to be UNBIASED and investigate, rather than question my motives. Again, I was a BIG FAN fan of Profit Lance when I signed up, and was looking forward to promoting Profit Lance until I discovered some questionable ethics behind Profit Lance.
I'd respect Mike a lot more if he admitted he was wrong and took down the websites he copied, rather than try to justify his wrongdoing...and took down any other sections from Profit Lance that he may have used without authorization.
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makemoneyonline
Joined: 3 Sep 2006
Posts: 824
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2007 19:13
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I just thought of it, the new profit lance homepage kinda reminds me of the new ultimate wealth package homepage.
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JCP
Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2007 23:28
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Quoting: JCP That was not a report, it was a manipulitative and well thought out plan to dis-credit and stain the integrity and reputation of Mike Andrews, and to promote The Wealthy Affiliate.
Ok, I want to apoligize for the Blanket statement I made. It was 2 fold and I know I was misunderstood. because my brain was thinkng too fast, and anyway....Sorry, that I put my foot in my mouth.
My first train of thought was yes about you promoting wealthy affiliate. but the manipulitave and well thought out plan to discredit Mike's reputation... ~~>was in regaurds to Scam.com I take full respondsibiliy for my foot in mouth. And, am sorry for my blast....
I just am the type of person that if I have something to say I don't think before I speak. I am also wandering, has anyone approached Mike about these issues? Anytime I have heard anything about him thru other sources, I have given him the link, and showed him what is being said. Maybe Mike will respond to you guys your concerns. I think he is a pretty down to earth guy.
Again, I am going to email Mike my self with these concerns, and ask him what he thinks....I really like this forum, and will continue here.
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JCP
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Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2007 00:05
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I wrote Mike an email.......Anxious to hear back from him....
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forex4aliving
Member
Joined: 5 Nov 2006
Posts: 23
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2007 02:36 · Edited by: forex4aliving
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Quoting: getagrip After I purchased Profit Lance, I was planning to update my website and rank Profit Lance as my number 2 product behind Wealthy Affiliate...but then as I read more of the tutorials, I started to feel really disturbed because of possible Copyright violations.
Hi Getagrip,
Besides the possible copyright violations issue, what about the content and course materials between Wealthy Affiliate and Profit Lance? Are the similar and cover the complete roadmap towards online marketing? Is Wealthy Affiliate just a collection of many ebooks?
I'm just weighing the cost of one time $77 vs $29 per month. At least Profit Lance allow an 8 week window to evaluate, right? What about Wealthy Affiliate? Are there any other hidden cost assosicated with Wealthy Affiliate (after my bad experience with UWP)?
Thanks.
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www.forex4aliving.blogspot.com
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JCP
Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2007 17:42
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Quoting: getagrip Besides the possible copyright violations issue, what about the content and course materials between Wealthy Affiliate and Profit Lance? Are the similar and cover the complete roadmap towards online marketing? Is Wealthy Affiliate just a collection of many ebooks
Ok, so were all one big happy family now.... 
Basically when Mike had the review sites designed he outsourced the graphics design and layout. He gave the design person a list of
around 6 sites which to look at. The end result was that he got
a site looking similar to other sites. Mike told me that he is going to pay someone else to do him another design. Problem solved..
In addition, apart from the content he has created him self in the members area, he has resell rights content and private label material that he has used as additional information, and the rest of the material he paid someone to have it prepared by outsourcing.
Mike has been way too busy in the marketing aspect of his numerous other online businesses to do a complete review of what he has in there, but he is going to do an overhaul coming soon when he launches a series of new products.
Mike has over 600 domains/sites, well over 4 million pages online, he has a few membership sites, he has huge affiliate sites and also does strategic marketing work for high paying customers - He recently helped a client make sales of $320,000 in a 60 day period with a site that's only 60 days old.
Mike is going to revamp his sites just to let you all know.
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JCP
Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2007 21:52
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I will ask him. and I will post when I find out.
I hope that that information helped in some way.....Clarity???
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getagrip
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1592
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2007 22:00
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Can you also ask him why the SEO and Info products sections match other websites word for word?
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JCP
Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2007 22:17
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Quoting: getagrip Getagrip is right and he made several valid points. There are some copyright breaches, which means that there are also some ethical breaches.
When you have resell rights and private label material, you can do with it what you want correct? That is the right..... when having resell RIGHTS.... You can do anything you want with this content...
Resell the articles as they are, create brand new Ebooks, special reports, eCourses or add them to your web site or newsletters.
Legally he as done NOTHING wrong seriously....He has resell rights.
Things you can do:
Resell the Package
Include it in membership sites
Sell it on eBay
Give it away
Quoting: getagrip Furthermore, I saw several attempts to hide ownership and copyright info on more than one eBook
Can you be moe specific? Which ones, and how do you feel he has attempted to HIDE ownership and Copyright info???
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JCP
Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2007 22:23
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Quoting: getagrip Can you also ask him why the SEO and Info products sections match other websites word for word?
What other web sites?
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JCP
Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2007 22:43
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Let me say this......
Mike has spent thousands and thousands of dollars to gain the Knowledge to become wise in making money online.
If it seems copied word for word, is that wrong? Since he OWNS resell rights? What's to say that the web site it seems to be a copy cat of holds the resell rights also?
I know for a fact that Everything in the course is what he has learned and from everything he has compiled over the last year or two. The BIG key here is "Resell Rights" Since he PAID for the acess of the ebooks, and Master copyrights. Believe me this is not a new thing...
DO a google search on resell rights, it is ginormous and unending ebooks everywhere.
This is in the course Mike says " Welcome to the video section. I've put together the best tutorials I have found online that benefited me greatly. In fact, I've bought the resale rights to them so you can benefit from them without having to buy them separately. They form part of the Profit Lance System. " HE has BOUGHT them...
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getagrip
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1592
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2007 23:05 · Edited by: getagrip
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Of course I know what resell rights abooks are...but if you have resell rights ebooks, there is no reason for you to hide the title of the ebook.
The same thing is true for rebrandable ebooks - there really isn't a reason to hide the title of the ebook. He did this for the ebook on Copywriting.
As far as the sections that appeared to have been copied word per word, those are the SEO and Info Products sections - just copy a sentence from these sections, put it in quotes "like this", and you will see the other websites this information appears on.
If he has legitimate resell rights to everything, great...I just have never heard of anyone not displaying the title of a resell rights ebook.
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Casper
Member
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 275
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2007 23:22
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I am a total newbie at Internet marketing which is better profit lance or Wealthy Affiliates, From what I have read the support from Wealthy Affiliates is a little bit better than profit lance.
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JCP
Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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# Posted: 6 Sep 2007 23:31
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Quoting: Casper I am a total newbie at Internet marketing which is better profit lance or Wealthy Affiliates, From what I have read the support from Wealthy Affiliates is a little bit better than profit lance.
Hahaha Well, tht depends on who you talk to. I honestly know nothing about Wealthy Affiliate. I just know that with Profit lance, right now it is a one time fee. but Mike is considering changing to a membership site. But ifyour already a member before, you basiclly are grandfatherd in.... hahah and won't be charged monthly.
I know Mike has responded to every one of my email's and has been more than helpful and it will be Mike your talking to. Very personal customer service. Like I said do not know anything about Wealthy affiiate....
Good Luck on your journey~
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JCP
Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 85
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# Posted: 7 Sep 2007 00:22
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We can Agree to disagree. Which I totally disagree with your acusations.
Are you going to email him? Or just continue to assume he does not have legitiate resell and rebrand rights to everything? And continue to suspect him?
If you catch someone doing something wrong is it not better to confront the person or just keep assuming. That is how rumors spread like wild fire.... PUT yourself in his shoes. If you really do not care to ASK HIM, then why keep accusing him? That is all I am saying. But, I do not know you, I know Mike. So, like I said "ASK him" [email protected] he will answer ALL of your questions.
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getagrip
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1592
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# Posted: 7 Sep 2007 00:54 · Edited by: getagrip
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Quoting: JCP If you catch someone doing something wrong is it not better to confront the person or just keep assuming.
If you catch someone doing wrong, then you know he's guilty. Period. At that point you don't need to assume anything else. However, once that trust is broken, if he's acting suspiciously in other ways, you might suspect he is guilty in other areas as well based on the evidence you uncover...this is why detectives ask questions about things that "don't seem right.
And I haven't "kept on accusing him". You asked me some questions earlier, and I answered them. It was a way of clarifying what I had previosly stated and why.
Here's something really interesting about Mike's explanation for copying the Wealthy Affiliate websites:
There is a Wealthy Affiliate member who developed some software, and a popular internet marketing "guru" who has his own Clickbank products ended up re-distributing this guy's software without permission (I'll leave the guru's name out because I don't want everyone who purchased his product to jump in on this forum thread). After he confronted the "guru" about why he was re-distributing his software, guess what the guru said? Check it out - this is an actual Wealthy Affiliate forum post on the matter:
"I heard back from (name of Guru). Funny guy. So apprently this venture, while part of his business, is not the core of his business. Furthermore, he had no clue it was my code. He hired a programmer to do the same thing I did and when he compared my program to the version he got from his programmer he felt it was totally different. He apologized and said he'll tell his programmer what a bad job he did.
He asked that he keeps selling my version of the code until he develops a new one, and to make it up to me, he'll JV w/ me on a future project.
I sent him a stern response and I am waiting to hear back from him.
I asked for immediate removal of my code, a public apology to his current customers telling them the truth, and proof about this 'fictional' programmer.
I guess when he gave my program to the coder and told him to make it look very different from mine, the programmer didn't think beyond giving my program a new skin. Hence (name of Guru) complaining that his programmer did a bad job. What a joke."
Sounds familiar?
Interesting isn't it? A popular internet marketing "guru" gets accused of distrubuting someone else's work without permission, and he blames someone else. Mike gets accused of copying someone else's website, and he blames someone else...but of course, we "know" that in both cases, both "gurus" were totally innocent and really didn't know what was really going on, simply because we "know" these guys can't have an unethcal bone in their body...
There really isn't much more for me to say on this matter...I guess I'm finished trying to re-explain why I started asking questions in the first place.
Hey, a lot of people believe that O.J. Simpson was guilty because of the evidence against him, and a lot of people believe that the evidence is just speculation, but people are entitled to their own beliefs, and the media is certainly allowed to report on suspicious activity. Ultimately, people are entitled to their opinions and to come up with their own conclusions based on the evidence that is presented before them.
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getagrip
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 1592
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# Posted: 7 Sep 2007 03:29 · Edited by: getagrip
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Quoting: JCP Mike has over 600 domains/sites, well over 4 million pages online
Did you say he has 4 MILLION pages online? Let's do some math here. If he has been at this for 2 years (730 days), that would mean he would have to create...
- 5,479 pages a day
- 228 pages an hour
- 3.8 pages a minute
- not sleep, shower, or eat anything
If he outsourced this work and paid just $5 per page, that would mean he would have paid out $20,000,000 to create these pages.
Just for the record, the name "Michael Andrews" only shows up 489,000 times in Google...and only 1 time in the #1 article directory, Ezinearticles.
If he's not from the planet Krypton, I personally don't think that's a true stat, but you can believe it if you want to.
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