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Vishal P. Rao
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 933
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2008 01:04
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This may come as a sad news but after much contemplation I have decided to scrap the "Introduction" forum. I know it serves as a good platform for newbies to introduce themselves but overall I feel it does not serve any concrete purpose. I believe the creation of the introductory forum is deviating the main forum from it's original goal - a platform to share quality information that others will find useful. Since it's inception the Introduction forum has witnessed over 400 topics and 2500 replies. But does any of it's content serve any purpose to the general visitor? That's my concern. And not to mention the time spent by members on the forum. Don't you think it's a waste of resources and time?
Regarding counter view that newbies need a place to introduce, I would like to state that this is not unlike other forums where you need to go though a formal introduction or warming up before participating in the forums. Each and every member, new or old, is treated with due respect and warmth here, as you'll find looking at the posts.
Looking forward to your views.
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Newbie Shield
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1450
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2008 06:49
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Hi Vishal,
Good call. I've always felt that the intro folder and threads were not only void of value but a little on the annoying side. I know it's a common site in forums, but I'm glad your getting rid of it.
Every day on every forum I visit I see "Hi I'm New..." more than any other type of post. I think that the join date and the number of total posts depicts a good enough membership history without the intro folder.
Though many are happy to greet newbies, some simply use it as an excuse to flash their sig links. There is no real substance or justifiable purpose to an intro folder. It's frivolous and the folder works against the stated goal of contributing significant value.
You made an additional good point when you stated that everyone is treated well here regardless of how long they've been here. Thus, no need for an intro folder.
Thanx,
~Newbie Shield~
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mountainmom5
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 1098
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2008 07:57
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Newbie Shield: Good call. I've always felt that the intro folder and threads were not only void of value but a little on the annoying side. I know it's a common site in forums, but I'm glad your getting rid of it.
In favor
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happywife
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 871
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2008 08:52
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Yippee! I'm always glad to see new people, but it gets to the point where I almost feel obliged to welcome every single person so that I don't hurt anyone's feelings. Silly, I know, but being a pastor's wife, it is sort of ingrained! 
It will save me heaps of time. You've got my vote.
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Hemjoe
Member
Joined: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 535
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2008 18:54
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Vishal, You have a very good point and i back your decision, although i do say hi to many people, i feel there is little substance to what is discussed within these threads.
When i joined there was no such section but still felt i had a warm welcome,
Oh and vishal while i am here i thought i would thankyou for this forum, because not only has it helped me but i am sure many others as well
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opendomain
Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 528
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2008 19:48
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Scrap it.
A lot of my posts get lost in the jumble of the seemingly endless intro posts a day.
I just hope it doesn't deter any new people or opp seakers looking for legitimate opportunities from getting involved...[I doubt it will]
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Vishal P. Rao
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 933
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# Posted: 1 May 2008 01:35
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Scrapped! Thanks to all of you
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cybermommy
Member
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 320
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# Posted: 1 May 2008 05:47
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Thankyou Vishal
I second the above posts
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gchildren
Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 41
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# Posted: 1 May 2008 19:33
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Instead of an introduction forum, how about a section that is dedicated to the beginner to internet marketing.
You could call it "Newbie's Forum" and make it clear that it is a forum for asking questions and getting advice about home business and not about introductions.
I think this would provide an opportunity for all of us to help focus on helping the new person to get started on the right foot and avoid some of the mistakes that we made.
John
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thecounter
Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 1
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# Posted: 2 May 2008 08:15
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I understand the reason for discontinuing the newcomers forum. However, it was nice to receive a warm welcome from those of you who took the time to write. Work from home is a mini-battlefield, fraught with minefields of scams and frauds that take your money and leave you dangling. Since most of us are looking for a supplemental income or a replacement for a full-time income we are no in a position to be paying someone to allow us to work for them.
It is nice to have the benefit of experience from those in the know about which "offers" are genuine and which are scams. It is a shame, but still a fact of life that when people try to better themselves there are the leeches who are looking to take advantage of them.
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opendomain
Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 528
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# Posted: 2 May 2008 11:30 · Edited by: opendomain
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I can appreciate the warm welcome that was often out there and I think it may have been what kept many people around, but IMHO a lot of what was being done was duplicated on specific sub-forums. For instance the general advice forum would be the ideal place to ask questions and is actually where most people post stuff right after they introduce themselves anyway.
I would suggest we all try to take note of people with 1-5 posts and welcome them while answering their questions to keep the same friendly environment going...I've said it once and I"ll say it again, this is hands down the most informative forum for people just starting with the whole "work online" thing.
OR here's an idea Vishal. Is there a way to "flag" a poster with only 1-5 posts as "new" so that when they ask their question we can drop them a friendly hello.
On that Note, Hello thecounter and welcome to the forum.
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Vishal P. Rao
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 933
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# Posted: 3 May 2008 00:19
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thecounter: However, it was nice to receive a warm welcome from those of you who took the time to write.
I understand that Dan. However I would again like to point from my posts that this is not unlike other forums where you need to go though a formal introduction or warming up before participating in the forums. Each and every member, new or old, is treated with due respect and warmth here, as you'll find looking at the posts.
Also, imagine the time spent by members posting welcome messages to every new member in the intro forum (and there are many). This could otherwise be utilized in answering more important questions (which could be one of yours) as time is a valuable commodity among all of us here.
There is another danger here. Expectations. When a member posts in the intro forum, he/she expects to be welcomed and might get hurt if not given a warm welcome, which is not possible every time.
gchildren: Instead of an introduction forum, how about a section that is dedicated to the beginner to internet bjn/knh.
It will be a difficult task to monitor and classify the questions as newbie and pro. I'll have a harrowing time
opendomain: OR here's an idea Vishal. Is there a way to "flag" a poster with only 1-5 posts as "new" so that when they ask their question we can drop them a friendly hello.
I believe what is more important here is to provide the members with what they are asking/looking for. Doing so will be prove to be of a much greater value to them than any possible welcome message.
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Newbie Shield
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1450
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# Posted: 3 May 2008 07:25
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Deleting the intro folder was a very good move.
I've noticed that newbies have often skipped the intro folder anyhow and just mentioned they were new as a first sentence when asking their first question.
I've also noticed that some of us have been answering a new member's first question with a "Welcome to the forum..." as a first sentence.
In this way, the greetings happen naturally and warm without needing any additional measures.
I think that it's set up optimally as is :)
~Newbie Shield~
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fsagarnaga
Member
Joined: 8 Nov 2007
Posts: 14
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# Posted: 12 May 2008 02:18
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I agree with you, that was a good move
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maleiter
Member
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 1
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# Posted: 15 May 2008 21:27
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I know it's late -- too late to stop discontinuance. But you know, the problem with this New TechWorld is the loss of personal warmth. Call any company, or government today, and what do you get? A taped message. We need to bring back a feeling of warmth and welcoming. Maybe this should be a major difference between Big Business and our type of endeavors. Many turning to this Forum are down on their luck, involuntarily retired, etc. They desperately NEED warmth and welcoming. Our little society should help provide it. Maybe at 63, after a long life, and aware of many people needing help, I am simply more sensitive. Mark this as an Alternate point of Dissent.
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Vishal P. Rao
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 933
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# Posted: 16 May 2008 01:31
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maleiter: But you know, the problem with this New TechWorld is the loss of personal warmth. Call any company, or government today, and what do you get? A taped message. We need to bring back a feeling of warmth and welcoming. Maybe this should be a major difference between Big Business and our type of endeavors. Many turning to this Forum are down on their luck, involuntarily retired, etc. They desperately NEED warmth and welcoming. Our little society should help provide it.
I agree with you Mark! However, I have to again remind that there is a high possibility of this forum straying away from it's prime objective due to presence of such a forum. In the end, this forum might end up only being a chat forum without contributing any significant value to the online community.
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businessonapage
Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 23
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2008 01:20
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Hello, I'm new here.
Newbie Shield, your point is pretty good. It reminded me of another forum (SquidU. I think?) which labels newbies as "I'm a newbie, please be nice" (or something along those lines). I didn't notice it until experienced forum contributors kept welcoming me and encouraging me to contribute. Does this labelling apply here?
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Vishal P. Rao
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 933
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2008 05:53
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businessonapage: Does this labelling apply here?
No it doesn't. All are treated here with due respect and warmth. Welcome aboard
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madnawat
Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 48
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2008 09:25
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yeah.. vishal, I go with your move, a newbie can directly post his question on board after saying hi, in appropriate folder. Nice move
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businessonapage
Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 23
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2008 17:41
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Vishal P. Rao: No it doesn't. All are treated here with due respect and warmth. Welcome aboard
Thank you for your welcome.
My apologies for taking so long to come back and contribute to the forums, as you could probably relate there were other priorities till now. I'm very grateful this forum is available for us work at home'rs and I hope to be more active 'as time goes by'.
I'm not sure if you thought I was using the word labelling in a bad way. I had meant to indicate it was good to have a Learners stage before 'member' and 'preferred member' to allow for mistakes some newbies may make, such as, eagerly advertising the first affiliate ad they enrolled in rather than contribute to a forum discusion.
Having said that though, for those that have learnt from other Forum sites and contribute well as a Forum citizen it would be good to upgrade the title to member faster than those who are learning the first time on this forum. I don't eve know if this could be done?
I guess I don't really mind if a Learner title is ever used, I just thought I would provide some merits as to why this could be used.
What do you think?
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Vishal P. Rao
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 933
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2008 06:26
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businessonapage: I'm not sure if you thought I was using the word labelling in a bad way. I had meant to indicate it was good to have a Learners stage before 'member' and 'preferred member' to allow for mistakes some newbies may make, such as, eagerly advertising the first affiliate ad they enrolled in rather than contribute to a forum discusion.
Actually there is no automated way of upgrading member status in this forum All are Members are Preferred members are specifically upgraded by me after viewing their contribution to the forum.
I guess I'll have to think about the automated way as the forum is becoming pretty large to monitor individual performances.
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Newbie Shield
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 1450
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2008 10:17 · Edited by: Newbie Shield
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Vishal P. Rao: I guess I'll have to think about the automated way as the forum is becoming pretty large to monitor individual performances.
Hi Vishal,
If you use number of posts in your algo, folks will spam just to gain official status and the quality will drop quite a bit.
If you use "replied to", small teams will form so that each member of the team gains status eventually.
Time on forum - since x date or duration of membership - doesn't usually mean much since many made a few posts one or two years ago but drop by for a post once or twice every few months and disappear again.
There is really no way to determine quality of contribution except to do so manually as you have been doing.
One alternative is to consider adding little colored dashes as "potential" indicators of contribution. It's vague and mostly inaccurate due to the reasons stated above but it's something if you really feel you need to add something (personally, I wouldn't. I think you have the system set up better than any other forum. Less is more.)
I think hand-picking titles is the only way that provides accuracy. I also think that the titles should be subject to revocation. If a preferred member starts slacking or sets a bad example, you might remove the title.
I don't think that having too many of any given title is a good idea either as it will water down the true meaning of the title. The title would become luke warm and nearly meaningless.
I suggest considering other titles. Moderator is the first thing that comes to mind. You might also have differing levels of various titles such as Senior, Associate, Ensign, etc as prefixes.
Furthermore, I've seen forums where members have either more than one title or a title plus various badges. For example, a member might have the title of moderator and have a "top contributor" badge, "Length of Service" badge, and "Expert Marketer" badge as well.
You could take the "Length of Service" badge a step further. For example, if someone has been a member for 1-2 years, they might have a "1" on the badge. For those who have been members for 2-3 years, there might be a 2 on the badge, etc...
Of course, you'd have to give a good amount of thought on qualifications or the algo, especially in regards to something like Top Contributor or Expert Marketer. Perhaps moderators and Preferred Members can assist on this matter. You could also get some assistance from using Polls.
Since you feel that the action on the forum is getting to be a bit much, you might consider two or three moderators. If you do, I would vote for HappyWife and Hermas. I would also be willing to help out in pretty much any capacity you like. There comes a time when "outsourcing" is necessary.
Personally, outsourcing will be one of the most difficult tasks I will ever face. I love to know everything about everything. I also like to do everything myself.
I'm okay with Joint Ventures, but delegating tasks within my own business is a disturbing thought. Even so, I am currently faced with the said situation in my own biz and I know for a fact that I will have to either hire a jack of all trades full time or begin to take on free lancers some time within the next 12 months.
It's actually a good sign business-wise, but it's also a bit unnerving to think about.
Back to titles and dashes: The forum is nearly perfect - possibly as close to perfect as can be - the way it is. I might advise caution in fixing something that isn't broken.
If you add various titles, things may become quite political and folks may feel slighted if they have been here for a time or if they feel they have been contributing more than others yet have no badges or titles. It could get quite complex.
It's a tough decision at best. Let me know if you'd like to bounce some ideas off of me. I've been an admin and a moderator on several boards and I'd be happy to help via PM or email.
Best of luck,
~Newbie Shield~
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A8ch
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 341
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2008 20:25
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"To scrap, or not to scrap the Introduction forum; that is the question.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the wrath of newbies,
Or to take arms against an outcry from loyal members,
And by opposing, end them?"
(Forgive my feeble attempt to spoof Shakespeare's Hamlet as a lead in to this post)
I obviously got to this discussion late, so many of my observations may be moot. But I'll state them anyway, if only to add interest.
Vishal, the cosummate forum administrator, is always primarily concerned with increasing efficiency and improving the service, value and useful content this forum provides to members. His analysis of the stats from the Introduction forum led him to consider closing it. This way, the wide range of topics being discussed in that forum that were unrelated to Introductions, could be seen and appreciated by more members if they were posted in the appropriate forums.
Makes perfect sense to me!
In keeping with the tone of courtesy, respect and warmth that exists here, Vishal, rather than make an arbitrary decision to close the forum, which he could have done, chose to solicit feedback from members first. Twenty-four hours later and with a 100% response in favor (all from very highly respected contributing forum members) the decision is made and the Introduction forum is history.
Seven months have now passed and from where I sit it's hard to tell what effect, if any, the closing has had on the Work-at-Home-Forum overall, and I don't know if there is any reliable method for measuring the outcome statistically. Seems to me things are moving along just fine though.
As far as automating elements of the forum to monitor and rate individual member contributions, I believe any digital "solution" on its own (without human intervention) will be inadequate at best. Newbie Shield's comprehensive assessment of alternative options supports this point of view.
And speaking of human intervention, Newbie, I'm honored that you'd nominate me for consideration should Vishal opt for live support.
Hermas
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Vishal P. Rao
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 933
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2008 09:13
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Newbie Shield: I think hand-picking titles is the only way that provides accuracy. I also think that the titles should be subject to revocation. If a preferred member starts slacking or sets a bad example, you might remove the title. I don't think that having too many of any given title is a good idea either as it will water down the true meaning of the title. The title would become luke warm and nearly meaningless.
You are right! It's a human tendency to make things as much automated as possible
Newbie Shield: Since you feel that the action on the forum is getting to be a bit much, you might consider two or three moderators. If you do, I would vote for HappyWife and Hermas. I would also be willing to help out in pretty much any capacity you like. There comes a time when "outsourcing" is necessary. Personally, outsourcing will be one of the most difficult tasks I will ever face. I love to know everything about everything. I also like to do everything myself.
I appreciate your suggestions NS! But like you, handing over the responsibilities (in part) over to somebody else doesn't come too easily to me. Actually the moderating stuff isn't too much for me. It's just that when things start gaining momentum on it's own, you tend to become lazy and think of automating things
Newbie Shield: Back to titles and dashes: The forum is nearly perfect - possibly as close to perfect as can be - the way it is. I might advise caution in fixing something that isn't broken.
Even I think that way. I'll let things move on as it is at the moment.
A8ch: Seven months have now passed and from where I sit it's hard to tell what effect, if any, the closing has had on the Work-at-Home-Forum overall, and I don't know if there is any reliable method for measuring the outcome statistically. Seems to me things are moving along just fine though.
Thank you for your inputs Hermas. Your words always amaze me
While there is really no reliable method of measuring the outcome, I feel that I made a good decision. Having the forum simply would have diverted most of the attention towards it, which wouldn't have added any real value of the forum as whole.
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