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malibumentor
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 317
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2007 15:02
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ok. LLI clearly isn't right for you.
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TJamMoneyMan
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Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 636
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2007 16:30
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I agree.
LLI is not for someone like me. Why they keep calling, and not even telling me who they are - so I can right away say "no thanks, been there done that" is beyond me.
I just wish ALL promoters would answer a few simple questions of my own so that I can make a decision right away, and save us both a lot of needless headache.
I can usually find out if something is right with me, or if I want to do further examination by getting a few questions answered myself.
LLI starts out by asking how much do you want to earn.
I counter by saying "well that depends on what I have to do and pay to earn it".
They usually wind up belittling me about needing to have bigger dreams for myself or something along that line.
Of course, I'd like to 'earn' a million bucks a day. But what you 'want' really depends on what you are willing to do to get it.
Believe it or not, there are other things I and other people would like to do with our lives than just earn money.
Not only LLI, but all promoters should be aware of this and be a little more up front about the demands a particular plan will place on the prospective customer/promoter.
It would only help save time, money and energy.
It also would help avoid accumulating dissatisfied customers, and avoid creating a negative image unnecessarily.
Apparently LLI is indeed good for some people.
I have been reading some positive comments as well as negative ones.
I am sure they don't want a lot of dissatisfied customers spreading a lot of horror stories around if they can avoid it.
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Howard Hughes
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2007 07:39
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Hi All,
I love the open and frank discussion on this forum. I like to consider what people are saying but more importantly what they are NOT saying. Sometimes it speaks louder. I see people trying to drive home their arguement (meant in its orginal form not in its, now, negative way) but they completely lack a decent premise.
Tell me what return does not involve initial investment be it hidden or otherwise? What entrepreneur does not expect an outlay? What career path does not involve people at the top of their game? What programme is so automated that it involves no input?
These are all questions I weighed up before I joined Liberty League. In fact, when you "Google" Liberty League the 2nd site on the list is some belly aching scam site. So I read it before I parted with my money. Do you know what? Not one of them could fault the business model. And that's what it is - running your own business. It's about YOU. Yes it may seem like hard work to make phone calls (did I really type that?) to people who are asking YOU for information. I have no problem disclosing what is involved because, let's face it, we're all grown ups and should be able to stand by our decisions.
I bought the Beyonf Freedomn course and I love it. The information may not be new but to use an analogy, I'd rather have the information ready-to-use than flat-packed awating my construction. Is it worth the money? Absolutely. It's helped me in all aspects of my life. Would I love to GIVE it to other people? Without a shadow of a doubt. But as Shakespeare said "Here's the rub!" No one appreciates something they get for free or on the cheap. They'll toss it in the corner and say "Thanks" to your face. Here's my truth, I'm only at this 2 and a half months folks but already I'm gearing up to leave my day job. I'm looking forward to not having to ask my boss for the time off to go to Rome next year for the Summit. Would my conscious be sullied trying to help others do the same? Not on your nelly.
I'm in Dublin, Ireland by the way and the help and support I have gotten from the States and the UK has been phenomenal. It's good to be skeptical and I love open discussion but please validate your premeses. I look forward to helping others who want to succeed. It's a great feeling.
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TJamMoneyMan
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2007 19:11
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Quoting: Howard Hughes Here's my truth, I'm only at this 2 and a half months folks but already I'm gearing up to leave my day job.
Come back in a year and with proof of your success.
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TJamMoneyMan
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2007 19:13
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Quoting: Howard Hughes Is it worth the money? Absolutely. It's helped me in all aspects of my life. Would I love to GIVE it to other people? Without a shadow of a doubt. But as Shakespeare said "Here's the rub!" No one appreciates something they get for free or on the cheap.
Is that the reason for the high price, so people will 'appreciate it' more?
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Howard Hughes
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# Posted: 2 Dec 2007 19:33
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TJamMoneyMan, first of all thanks for posting a reply. Many would not would have bothered.
To answer your question directly, yes that is why. To answer your question in a circumlocutary fashion, which would you endeavour to get the most out of (and this may seem petty but I think it re-inforces my point) a rake you bought for $14 or a rake you bought for $100?
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Howard Hughes
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EthosKeeper
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Joined: 6 Jan 2008
Posts: 16
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2008 14:01
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First and foremost, I have been self-employed, owning and operating a small self run contracting service for nearly 16 years (since I was 19). I invested thousands over the years, in hand tools, vehicle repairs, fuel, child care, insurances, etc.. and the list just goes on and on.
For all my honest efforts, I have sacrificed 60-80 hours per week, while being, loyal and dedicated to my work, while my family was running in a close second place. Don't get me wrong, my intent was to have more time, and more money for my wife and kids, instead I became a slave to my business. No time, no fun, little reward!
Although, I try to control the choices I make based on informed decisions, it's my philosophy anyone who seeks information of any type will get both positive and negative feedback, and in my case I learned early on, I cannot control the decisions of my employers or others. Influence them perhaps, but never control them!
Recently, (likely due to fuel costs, and inflation) I have noticed a very serious downward trend in the swimming pool construction industry.
Every client/employer/contractor, I have worked for over the years, seems generally concerned for their bottom line (profits), over my prior efforts, loyalty, and dedicated obediance, which helped them prosper. Many of these clients I helped build their business in an effort to secure my own income.
Without being pompous, I am very good at what I do, and generally averaged $75k-$100k a year before the standard $15k-$40k opporating costs (I did this for over 15 years)!
I've made a lot of Mercedes payments, and I've yet to own one. The point being, no one will hand you anything! Especially, in any standard business or job. What interests me in LLI, is the community, not the product.
Perhaps, people may have a difference of opinion, but heres my analogy of this companies potential. Should those who "see", and maintain the focus on the bottom line, which in this case is money, then the community prospers!
Isn't it obvious [the product] is an illusion, and needs to be in place for legal reasons?
Therefore what your really doing is investing/joining a community of like minded individuals, who share a common goal, and are willing to work together, investing in one another, helping each other, and creating a "mastermind atmosphere"
Unlike, the standards of normal businessmen/women, whereas, it's every man for himself, dod eat dog, and being expendible the minute a cheaper service provider treads upon your territory. I believe my sponsor wants me to do well, as will I, for those willing to join with me.
Don't get me wrong, I would never lie, or tell potential prospects I that could care less about the product, but in truth, I am joining because I want to surround myself with people who are at least trying to help each other. The product is "people". People toss $2k in, and you get a piece, creating nothing more than a circulation of money. Sure, most people don't get it, or succeed, because they are programed to accept they will never be rich, and cannot grasp the basic concept!
And yes, I believe it will require effort, and time to see results. All the complainers, likely did not believe in themselves, the community, the big picture, and as a result the dream died as did their efforts!
I was homeless a year ago with my wife and 3 kids, after all the people I worked for, trusted, and I had truly believed would always be there for me,(as I was for them) suddenly abandoned me! I felt plagued with leprosy or something.
That was a rude awakening!
Once my employers learned of my disaster (which happened largely impart from their greed driven motives) no one wanted to hire me.
After 20 years of searching for sustainment, happiness, and significane, I realized something; most people do not want to succeed, and most people spend enormous amounts of time trying to ensure no one around them does either!
After all, the age old adage, generally shows in any business model, 1 person gets rich, while the lessers stay poor.
Hey, punch a time clock if you like, or even shell out 10's of thousands starting and maintaining a business of your own, but I'll teel you straight, anybody who thinks $2k, and some monthly fees is alot, I'm not buying what their selling!
Truth be told, it would be my guess they didn't understand the power they'd been given, or worse, couldn't accept that success was in their reach!
As for me and mine, I'm taking my income taxes, jumping aboard with Liberty League International, and I am not afriad to row up stream against the natural current, because in this world those who go with the flow, wind up in the sewer!
I intend to join on Jan. 15th-18th, unless I find more than a few failures shunning LLC, or the 57 complaints with the Better Business Bureau over 36 months. Heck 20 failers to hpw many successors?
Ant feedback, welcomed and is appreciated.
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malibumentor
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 317
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2008 03:18 · Edited by: malibumentor
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Since you are an experienced business owner and have realistic expectations of what building a sales distributorship requires I think you are well qualified to succeed in LLI or any direct selling program.
Success is not a result of the program or the product we choose to promote, but of who we are and what we bring to the table. LLI strips the industry back to its essentials... which some people do not like.
To face the reality at success is really determined by personal development combined with sensible and direct action is not what many people want to hear. They want to believe it is a result of jumping on start-up programs or things which are only a few dollars to get started... things which appeal to the masses. Anybody who has grown weary of the MLM plans can tell you that getting and keeping 1000 people on autoship every month is no mean feat.
This is not to say that building a business like LLI is a picnic. It takes work, but the rewards are there and are immediately tangible. They paydays can be substantial and they can come early and produce teh kind of time and money freedom that really changes lives.
Where you position your business in the marketplace is very important to determine who will be your customers and how you will locate them. A big-ticket personal development program is perhaps not best marketed with fliers at the laundrymat or safelist advertising... but you never know.
Best wishes.
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EthosKeeper
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Posts: 16
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# Posted: 9 Jan 2008 12:48
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Thanks for your response, mailbummnetor.
While I have been searching for the right business, or fit, whereas, I can relate to the marketing plan, and "feel" comfortable the standards of the company will allow me to maintain my integrity, principles, and virtues, I am slightly overwhelmed at the moment.
I had looked into 4 potential marketing models already in place, and was confident I would find one that I liked. Only now I eliminated 2, and have 2 I really like.
One has a $500 start-up, with a monthly product commitment, and site fees etc...equal to $500 month. While the other is more up front, less per month, with some huge ticket items to contend with later.
As you mentioned above, most people seem to like the lower cost start-ups. Accept those opportunities require a huge downline, and require consistency in their ability to buy/order/purchase product(s) an make a resonable investment each month, in order for my success or residuals to increase. As is basic concept with any system.
My decision to join LLI is sound, however, my wife is leaning toward the cheaper start-up (Eniva), and thinks having less start-up, multiple products (health/nutrition, etc...) would prove better in the long run.
Therefore, I have to think Liberty League has such a great compension plan, and would be the better of the two, and in the now, would generate revenue almost immediate, whereas, the other, would likely require 2-3 months, just to see a return on the initial investment. And then demand the ability to keep the downline stimulated, and willing to invest, while they undergo the same slow start to see their returns trickle in.
Thus, my concern. What would be more logical?
Certainly, I can foresee the next phase of Liberty League being the bigger ticket items, and personally, would purchase those to support the upline, as well as enjoy the travel, and interaction with the community, and to support the business plan.
But I must wonder, do people understand, that in order to make it with LLI, you must invest, and believe by doing so, others will invest in you, thus remaining obedient to themselves, and the business model, rather than blind people with miracle potions and products. Again, I am not into pushing pills, potions, and mystery juices that the FDA won't allow you to talk about.
I think a lot of people miss the whole concept of marketing.
I don't believe either business would fail, so long as you understand the long term investment, and remember you joined for the long haul, and the residual income.
With that being said, I believe the compensation plan with LLI, is awesome, and I am confident the return will come quick. As far as the long term overview, I must wonder of the difficulty in getting the downline to spend anothe 20k per year. Naturally, if the business is working, then the money will be there, and the investment will pay for itelf.
In the other opportunity, I fear a large percentage of people will lose focus, if they do not see a return for the first few months. Yet those who remain loyal, I almost believe have the potential to produce larger profits in the long run, then LLI.
Does anyone have a take on this?
I understand, most people join a business first, then realize there's a better way, and jump ship, until they find the right fit for them. I personally, do want to do that. Once I commit, I want to stay focused and commited to that community.
I could always do one while my wife does the other, naturally. But that seems absurd, considering us working as a team, supporting one business, and staying focused would likely produce better results.
Anybody, please help me out here!
Thanks,
Ethos
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malibumentor
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 317
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# Posted: 11 Jan 2008 20:57
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I have some information and opinions about nutritional MLM companies in general that I would be happy to share with you outside of a public discussion forum.
I won't say that MLM or direct sales is a better business model or that you are more likely to be successful with one than with the other.
If making money is your top priority there is no doubt you can make some money with nutritional programs. I will leave it at that and if you want more information thats really more of a private conversation.
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TJamMoneyMan
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2008 19:44
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Quoting: Howard Hughes in a circumlocutary fashion, which would you endeavour to get the most out of (and this may seem petty but I think it re-inforces my point) a rake you bought for $14 or a rake you bought for $100?
I don't know what the heck "circumlocutary" is supposed to mean but, why pay $100 for a rake when you can get one for $14?
I would most certainly try to do the job with the cheaper rake!
I would 'endeavour to get the most out of' ANYTHING I paid money for.
'Endeavoring' to get the most return on my investment whatever the amount.
A $100 rake will have to prove itself to be at least greater than SEVEN TIMES the value of a $14 rake.
Given the task of what rakes are purchased to do, a $100 rake will have a very hard time of justifying such an exorbitant price.
Likewise, LLI will have to justify the excessively high costs of its program.
So far, LLI doesn't seem to even have a CAP on expenses, much less a justification!
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Howard Hughes
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2008 04:15
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I think you have missed my point TJam. Yes, both rakes will do the same job, if you are only doing the job once.
But what happens over time when the cheaper rake, probably made of inferior quality materials, starts to give and you have to go out and buy another rake? How much have you saved? You get what you pay for TJam and in this highly saturated, money-making world everyone is throwing out something to sell. And of course, the market is unregulated so there is no quality control.
All I can do is speak to you of my experience of the product and the business and all I can say to both is that they work. I'd like to acknowledge your point of view at this stage, if I can do it cheaper why not? Well, I wish you the best of luck with that frame of mind. I have friends with that mindset. They are not very happy people.
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Howard Hughes
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TJamMoneyMan
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2008 11:28 · Edited by: TJamMoneyMan
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Quoting: Howard Hughes But what happens over time when the cheaper rake, probably made of inferior quality materials, starts to give and you have to go out and buy another rake?
CONSUMER REPORTS magazine has shown time and again, that higher price seldom begets higher quality. Many consumers have made similar observations based on their own experience.
If you are going to charge a high price for something it should be for higher QUALITY, not just so the customer will 'appreciate it more' - which was your original point.
The price should at least reflect the cost of producing and marketing the item, especially if the retail price is going to be excessive.
That's one way to justify a higher then expected price tag.
If the only reason for an exorbitant price is so that someone will 'appreciate' the product, then that's hardly an indication of intrinsic value.
To use your analogy, I'd 'appreciate' a $14 rake more and 'endeavor to get more' out of it, if only I had to pay $100 for it.
LLI, should justify the price of it's products by their inherent value and quality, not just so people will 'appreciate' them more.
They can charge what they want of course, but they should not be surprised that a customer like myself questions the cost of their products with regard to value, and fair market price.
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Howard Hughes
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2008 11:58
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ap�pre�ci�ate
verb
recognize the full worth of:she feels that appreciate her. See not at: Esteem.
I would agree with you wholeheartedly TJam, when you are parting with money, you should question the cost of the product(s) and if you ask anyone in LLI, they would be happy to explain a) the reason why LLI was set up in the first palce and b) the price of the product(s).
Speaking for myself, it is important to me that anyone who comes in to the business through me does so in full knowledge.
Howard
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TJamMoneyMan
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2008 12:01
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Well, I wish you much success with LLI.
Keep us posted!
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Howard Hughes
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2008 12:09
Reply
Thank you TJam. I'd be delighted to keep you posted. Perhaps you could give me you e-mail address and we'll keep it of the notice board?
[email protected]
I look forward to hearing from you.
To your continued success too. If you ever find yourself in Dublin, Ireland, we can have a "philosopher's chat" over a Guinness....
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banditbiker
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2008 13:22 · Edited by: banditbiker
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They push and push you to get the most expensive level and you will have a heck of a time duplicating what the few who are making money are doing. There are easier ways to go.
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TJamMoneyMan
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2008 08:46
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Quoting: Howard Hughes To your continued success too. If you ever find yourself in Dublin, Ireland, we can have a "philosopher's chat" over a Guinness....
Til Dublin then!
[email protected]
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BeHomeToday
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Posts: 13
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2008 16:38
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Hi everyone. A friend of mine was in Liberty League and was doing very well with it, like $50,000 a month. He recently has joined with me in a new company that he saw the potential in. He's a tremendous business man, in that he has several businesses that are making him a lot of money. Being that he was in LLI and saw my company as something of equal value in the business world, I encourage you to take a peek as well. Being part of several good businesses and promoting them in different ares in life can magnify the outcome.
David Joseph
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EthosKeeper
Member
Joined: 6 Jan 2008
Posts: 16
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2008 17:42
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David Joeseph,
I found a very insghtful article regarding BTTW online, and the company sounds to have a good plan in place. However, without going into the extremities of giving you my contact info on your main page, please message me in private as I have a few questions regarding BBTW. I am 99% sure I'll be starting my first online marketing venture in the next few days, However it hurts to research them all.
Thanks,
Art
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EthosKeeper
Member
Joined: 6 Jan 2008
Posts: 16
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2008 17:45
Reply
Last sentence, should have read; "However it NEVER hurts to research them all."
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malibumentor
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 317
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2008 14:35
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Just to be clear -
the reason many people are attracted to LLI is because it has been around for over 6 years, has a massive back-end profit system in place and working, and it has overcome the challenges new companies face.
Most folks who call me about LLI are not looking for a startup opportunity. They know that most of them tank or experience rapid growth in the "launch" phase but that the growth is not sustainable.
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BeHomeToday
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# Posted: 24 Jan 2008 21:55
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I understand what your saying Malibumentor. There are a lot of companies out there that have a fast start, but burn out quickly. I think that a companys structure, what it has to offer, and whether it can become flexible to change when necessary has a lot to do with how well it will do for the long haul. As well as the character of the company as a whole. I believe that Gerald, the CEO, has taken a considerable amount of his experience and incorporated it into this business. I'm sure that LLI is a blessed business to be a part of. As you have said, it has proven itself over time.
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cebarber2
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Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 55
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2008 14:27
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Great thread! Many opportunities to choose from; which way to go? I believe an ideal business model needs to have 4 key components:
1. A high-quality exclusive product. An in-demand product that is actually worth more than you pay for it, and is available only from one company.
2. A high ticket item with a high profit margin. Thus, you're able to utilize time leverage, as well as profit leverage by generating fewer sales.
3. Automation. A system that does the initial explaining 24/7, further leveraging your time.
4. Support and mentoring. Extremely vital, especially if you are new to the industry. Someone already successful in the business that you're able to mirror, at least in the beginning stages.
These factors were very attractive when I was looking for the ideal opportunity.
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TJamMoneyMan
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# Posted: 3 Feb 2008 04:59
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Quoting: BeHomeToday Hi everyone. A friend of mine was in Liberty League and was doing very well with it, like $50,000 a month.
I find that extremely hard to believe.
Is there any proof? (I didn't think so!).
Then, how much did he invest to make that kind of cash?
Of course, there's no proof of that either.
Folx make these outrageous claims in order to get people to sign up for whatever it is they are promoting - "Being that he was in LLI and saw my company as something of equal value in the business world, I encourage you to take a peek as well."
Then, I notice all this is in the past tense (was in LLI etc.).
Which makes sane folx inquire - why would someone stop doing something that 'was' bringing in $50,000 a month???
hmmmmm...
From the admin posting advice:
2) Please stay on topic. Posts meant to hijack users from the original topic will be removed. For example, if the discussion is on company X, no posts will be made regarding Y company.
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BeHomeToday
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# Posted: 3 Feb 2008 20:21
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I have sent you a private message TJ Moneyman.
David Joseph
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BeHomeToday
Member
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Posts: 13
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# Posted: 3 Feb 2008 20:40
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TJ Moneyman, I couldn't send you a private message because of some anti-spam filter, but here's the message. If you would like Gregory's number, who is the gentleman that was in LLI, and any other information to communicate with him about how he did in LLI or how much he invested monthly to acheive that, go to
blueskyfxcm.com
As far as why someone like him, or the young man who I'm working under right now in Big Ticket To Wealth would leave $50,000 a month, it's to take an opportunity to make more which they both are doing.
I hope that helps. Take care and God Bless.
David
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TJamMoneyMan
Member
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Posts: 636
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2008 00:27
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I got your message Dave:
As far as why someone like him, or the young man who I'm working under right now in Big Ticket To Wealth would leave $50,000 a month, it's to take an opportunity to make more which they both are doing.
You mention $50,000 a month, but you don't indicate what it cost to make that $50G.
Every business costs.
People often brag about income, but unless what it COST to make that kind of money is included, in time as well as finance, the figure is essentially meaningless.
Then, there are 'costs' that are a little harder to quantify - and rarely do folx care to share all of these realities with complete strangers!
QUALITY of life - time away or with family, physical and mental well being, to name just a few.
Then too, sometimes there's often a light at the end of the tunnel - the dreaded oncoming train!
In most cases these issues are more often what compels people in a certain direction than simply 'to take an opportunity to make more'.
We only need so much money after all.
What the money COSTS is extremely important, and undeniable.
You or anyone can do what they wish, and make what you like, and I hope only the best for you in your endeavors, but when you post figures that tell only part of the story, I see a red flag.
Maybe needlessly, but more often than not, I find that there's more to the story than just one figure will explain.
And when folx talk about how much money they or someone else is making, there is ALWAYS an agenda (in this case, promoting a website!). Otherwise, how much money one makes is nobody's business but their own. For these reasons and for the sake of truth in forum posting, I feel justified in commenting.
TC&GBU2!!,
TJMM
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BeHomeToday
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2008 00:46
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No Problem TJ. You have a great point. Having a business does require time and money to become something substantial.
Take care,
Dave
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Todays new kid on the block in the Home Business arena is Big Ticket To Wealth. This company is built upon integrity and the training is second to none! http://www.BeHomeToday.com, |
Na_Dude
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Joined: 4 Feb 2008
Posts: 1
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2008 01:44
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To me it seems the people who are ripping people off and getting rich are the ones who love this company. Check out BBB.org and you'll see that LLI is garbage. To me it seems nothing but BS...smooth car sales man talk. Talking about a $14 rack and a $100 one, come on people wake up. It is just a get rich scam period. Anyone with some common sense can see the red flags; check out all the post on RipOffReport.com. It just a pyramid scam. Can anyone just say if you sign up with LLI this is your investment and your monthly cost. Like this clown beingdoinghaving.com, the whole web site does not even state the job description. Just a VERY LONG sales pitch.
This is from the BBB.org web site...
On May 24, 2006, the Arizona Attorney General announced a settlement with Liberty League International and their principles Brent Payne and Shane Krider. The consent judgment resolved complaints that the multi-level marketing corporation "tricked" consumers into spending money by promising "sizable commissions" if they marketed three personal development products and recruited new participants into their program. According to the document filed in Superior Court, the program participants didn't earn enough money to cover the cost spent on the products they were selling.
The Settlement requires Liberty League International to pay $100,000 in civil penalties, refrain from making unsubstantiated earnings claims, advise consumers of the correct percentage of participants that have made a profit through the Liberty League Program and refrain from making false and deceptive claims in their marketing materials.
The Settlement requires Liberty League International to pay $100,000 in civil penalties, refrain from making unsubstantiated earnings claims, advise consumers of the correct percentage of participants that have made a profit through the Liberty League Program and refrain from making false and deceptive claims in their marketing materials.
For further information on this settlement you may wish to visit the Arizona Attorney General's website at www.attorney_general.state.az.us.
The Bureau has requested basic information from this company. The Bureau has not received a response.
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